All honest criticism welcome - shooting

[Djfan]

Man, if you were a bit closer I’d suggest you come out and we could have a second look at this. I will admit that I used to flinch with a .30-06 but I think I’m mostly cured from it. I could shoot great groups from the bench but would flinch bad at game.

The .270 target is hard to tell since it wasn’t really shot as a group. You shot some from the bench and some from field positions. Realistically most of those shots will be lethal at short range but that would bother me if my rifles were printing targets that way.

It does bother me. That's why I'm here on this. I have been watching videos all evening, and feel like my trigger finger needs adjusting. I'll try that.

You can see why I keep my shots at about 100 yards. I don't want to hunt beyond my limits, but really want to improve my limits.

 

[Jbotto]

It does bother me. That's why I'm here on this. I have been watching videos all evening, and feel like my trigger finger needs adjusting. I'll try that.

You can see why I keep my shots at about 100 yards. I don't want to hunt beyond my limits, but really want to improve my limits.

Understood, glad to hear your .243 doesn’t give you these issues. If Washakie County was closer to you as I’d happily lend a hand.

 

[D4570]

All things said... Are you anticipating the shot and report? Try shooting muffs.
My Grandaughter( she is 14 and has been shooting since she was 6) is not recoil shy but the report makes her jump. We are working on a new rifle for her. when she uses foam earplugs and shooting muffs she shoots like this, at 100 yards.
No bench only sitting on the ground and using sticks.

Ear covering made all the difference.
She is shooting a 7mm X57 AI.

 

[3855WIN]

The Simmons scope is low quality. Replace it with a quality scope.

 

[std7mag]

First off, ditch the sled!!
They do nothing but teach bad habits!


Without knowing what rifle manufacturer, I'm questioning the statement " had my gunsmith alter it to free floating the barrel".
While this works ok with some rifles, some manufacturers actually use a pressure point in the forestock. (Ruger 77 & Hawkeye)

When your resting the rifle, you are doing so on the stock, not the barrel, right??

Loosen your grip on the wrist of the stock.
I've seen this & found out first hand. Where the trigger hand tries to "steer" the rifle to the target. But just ends up putting a twisting action on the stock. (Hence why your actually shooting better off the sled).

Get a friend, or someone from your shooting group to shoot the rifles. If nothing else, it will tell if it's you, or the rifle.

 

[D4570]

he Simmons scope is low quality. Replace it with a quality scope.

270 is pretty new, a Leupold,

Leupold is a good scope, with two different guns and scopes, and the results are similar. I think there is a shooter/ or form, issue.
Is your cheek up tight to the stock and in the same place each time?
When you look through the scope is the black ring you see around the eyepiece even and round? do the crosshairs look centered?
Any or all of these can produce the same effect. And are you holding the rifle leave not canted off to the side, tilted? Maybe the stock is too short or long making the scope too close or too far away from your eye.
Try a 3-point hold sitting on the ground, knee up with your trigger finger arm on your knee for support. Let out your breath slowly when you finish you should be steady and your heartbeat should not be moving the crosshairs.
try each of these tips one at a time and see which one helps the most.

 

[Wild Bill]

Lotta good info in here already, but I’ll throw it out there to have someone else shoot the gun. You may be subconsciously anticipating recoil and flinching without knowing. I had a little issue with that on one rifle. Couldn’t get it to group well and my smith suggested throwing a brake on it. I’m not a huge fan of brakes, but it did the trick and the reduced recoil has tightened up my groups to sub MOA all day.
Hopefully everyone’s info can help you improve your shooting. Good luck.

 

[brockel]

Leupold is a good scope, with two different guns and scopes, and the results are similar. I think there is a shooter/ or form, issue.

Not going to be a popular opinion on this sight but leupold internals are not very robust. Have seen more than a couple wrecked by a lead sled.

 

[Doublecluck]

First thing I would do is go find a buddy with a rifle with a known accuracy and shoot it, see how you compare. That will tell you if is you or the gun. Then , scope, rings and bases, action screws, and ammo.

 

[OpenCountry]

Not going to a popular opinion on this sight but leupold internals are not very robust. Have seen more than a couple wrecked by a lead sled.

Watched a guys VX5 internals turn into a rattle can from using a sled. You could shake it and hear the internals rattling all over the place.

 

[jt13]

Have someone else shoot it that's a good shooter to see if it's you or the gun. As others have stated, it's probably you. If it's even partially the gun, 2" groups or larger, work on finding the culprit- scope, action screws, ammo choice. Once someone is able to get the gun to shoot sub 2" groups, put it away. Start from the ground up with a .22LR at 25 yards- from a bench, standing, kneeling, prone. My guess is that it's a combination of factors, but a bad trigger squeeze and a mean flinch is almost certainly your issue.

If you don't think the lead sled is a real problem, it is. I was once trying to sight in my wife's turkey gun, a SBE with a Bushnell 1.5-4x on a cheap saddle mount. After three shots with 3.5" magnums in the weighted sled the scope was laying on the ground and the mount was in 3 different pieces.I still use a lightweight lead sled from time to time but I don't put any weight on it to keep it in place. It functions as a gun rest but still recoils relatively normally and doesn't destroy the scopes and rings.

 

[mdhunter61]

Lots of good info already...one thing I haven't seen posted yet (or perhaps I missed it) is check the weight of the trigger pull. Due to liability issues, lots of factory rifles come with triggers that don't break until 6 or 7 pounds of pull - it's hard for me to shoot well with that hard of a trigger pull. I had both of my rifles set to 3 pound trigger pulls, seemed to help me shoot better.

 

[Djfan]

First off, ditch the sled!!
They do nothing but teach bad habits!


Without knowing what rifle manufacturer, I'm questioning the statement " had my gunsmith alter it to free floating the barrel".
While this works ok with some rifles, some manufacturers actually use a pressure point in the forestock. (Ruger 77 & Hawkeye)

When your resting the rifle, you are doing so on the stock, not the barrel, right??

Loosen your grip on the wrist of the stock.
I've seen this & found out first hand. Where the trigger hand tries to "steer" the rifle to the target. But just ends up putting a twisting action on the stock. (Hence why your actually shooting better off the sled).

Get a friend, or someone from your shooting group to shoot the rifles. If nothing else, it will tell if it's you, or the rifle.

I noticed the wrist thing from videos. Thanks. That is coming next.

My 270 is a Savage Model 110 in 270. It is not the AccuTrigger, unfortunately. The 30-06 is a 1903 Springfield that has be sporterized. It had a front ring on the barrel, up where the sling was mounted. He took that off and put in a different type of anchor for the sling. Shoots better now.

It is not being rested on the barrel, only the stock.

I am running on the assumption here that it is me and my mechanics, not the guns. While I want the 270 trigger replaced to a lighter pull, there seems to be really nothing more to fix, besides the scope on the 30-06.

 

[Djfan]

All things said... Are you anticipating the shot and report? Try shooting muffs.
My Grandaughter( she is 14 and has been shooting since she was 6) is not recoil shy but the report makes her jump. We are working on a new rifle for her. when she uses foam earplugs and shooting muffs she shoots like this, at 100 yards.
No bench only sitting on the ground and using sticks.

Ear covering made all the difference.
She is shooting a 7mm X57 AI.

I wear muffs at the range.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

If you can shoot the 243 well, I'm betting that you are flinching at the recoil of the 270 and 06. Not an uncommon issue for shooters.

A crisp trigger can help with that so you are a little surprised everytime the gun fires so you don't have the chance to flinch. Also sometimes it's a mental game, like hey its going to punch me but it's not that bad!

Also, keep your shooting sessions short so you don't make more bad habits but shooting after you have a tender spot in your shoulder

 

[Djfan]

Leupold is a good scope, with two different guns and scopes, and the results are similar. I think there is a shooter/ or form, issue.
Is your cheek up tight to the stock and in the same place each time?
When you look through the scope is the black ring you see around the eyepiece even and round? do the crosshairs look centered?
Any or all of these can produce the same effect. And are you holding the rifle leave not canted off to the side, tilted? Maybe the stock is too short or long making the scope too close or too far away from your eye.
Try a 3-point hold sitting on the ground, knee up with your trigger finger arm on your knee for support. Let out your breath slowly when you finish you should be steady and your heartbeat should not be moving the crosshairs.
try each of these tips one at a time and see which one helps the most.

I know it's a scope, and the Savage is the rifle. I was being brief.

I will have to pay more attention to the cheek placement. I really haven't.

 

[Djfan]

Lots of good info already...one thing I haven't seen posted yet (or perhaps I missed it) is check the weight of the trigger pull. Due to liability issues, lots of factory rifles come with triggers that don't break until 6 or 7 pounds of pull - it's hard for me to shoot well with that hard of a trigger pull. I had both of my rifles set to 3 pound trigger pulls, seemed to help me shoot better.

I am having my 30-30 reset right now for the same reason. On the 30-06 it is very smooth, but on the 270 I have to pull way too much for my comfort. It is the next to be adjusted.

Thanks!

 

[Djfan]

If you can shoot the 243 well, I'm betting that you are flinching at the recoil of the 270 and 06. Not an uncommon issue for shooters.

A crisp trigger can help with that so you are a little surprised everytime the gun fires so you don't have the chance to flinch. Also sometimes it's a mental game, like hey its going to punch me but it's not that bad!

Also, keep your shooting sessions short so you don't make more bad habits but shooting after you have a tender spot in your shoulder

Agreed on all points. When I get into a groove at the range, the sessions are longer. Yesterday, I was not finding it, so quit early. You can see that I didn't fire too many rounds.

Thanks.

 

[Addicting]

I bench shoot almost exclusively off a bipod with a rear bag when I am shooting groups. If that’s not possible then prone with a bipod and rear bag.

It does zero good to work on groups at the range fighting the way to rest a gun.

 

[Boarmaster]

Lots of great info on here. Theres a lot going on here for online help. You should get hands on help from members at your gun club. The only thing I would add is I would start by giving both rifles a good cleaning.
I’m talking about removing carbon and copper. I used Montana extreme on a 270 I have that started shooting erratically. Straightened it out.
You would benefit greatly by hands on help.