All honest criticism welcome - shooting

[BrentD]

Maybe someone already mentioned this, but if you have a friend that has a gun that shoots well, let him shoot your gun and you shoot his. That will identify if it is your gun or you.

Do you enjoy shooting?

 

[Dakotakid]

I try to only change one variable at a time, or you never know which one had an effect. Some have suggested having a friend shoot it, that decreases the “you” variable but might not be true representation and if it does work, it is awkward asking them to go on every hunt to shoot for you.

I think each rifle probably should be worked up separately.

Pick one
Check that everything is fitted, tight.
Next, I despise a heavy trigger, literally have had nightmares trying to shoot monsters and bad guys with a hard pulling trigger. If you hate the trigger, the thought will be present with every shot.

Next try to pick a known accurate load- some claim blue box federal is consistently accurate. Try it from bags. If it is not under two inches I would swap the optic and try again. SWFA gets lots of praise for a cheap scope.

Once you get the accurate rifle, then on to the person behind.
I rarely shoot standing. But once you have confidence in the rifle, you can focus on what your doing. Video your shooting with your phone to see if you are jerking, breaking your wrist or lifting your head.

I have a big big gun that I fire that people think will cause a person to flinch. My experience has been the opposite. After shooting a really big gun, everything smaller feels like a .22.
But that is a controversial argument. But does work for me.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Not much to add to the good advice given, except: Good on you for limiting your shooting range while hunting! Not everyone is willing to accept the limitations shown by their current shooting. I'm guessing you'll get this figured out and be able to shoot longer distances.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

If you shoot the 243 well and it doesn't have other functional shortcomings, I see no reason to avoid using it for anything you can hunt in WY. Your ability to shoot it well is magnitudes more important than any outdated logic saying you need XX ft/# of energy to kill something.

I saw mention of a gunsmith validating scope function - if it has a wandering zero there's a good chance a gunsmith isn't going to be able to diagnose it without a fair bit of shooting and mounting other scopes IMO.

a couple shooting fundamentals resources linked below. Maybe you don't use a bipod and your rifle isn't set up like them but building a solid position, being square behind the rifle, having all of your inputs to the rifle square and inline with the direction of the shot, and follow through/recoil management still apply:

9 Long-Range Shooting Fundamentals You Must Master

Aiming to become a proper precision shooter? Here are nine of the most important long-range shooting fundamentals you must master.

gundigest.com

Maybe someone already mentioned this, but if you have a friend that has a gun that shoots well, let him shoot your gun and you shoot his. That will identify if it is your gun or you.

Do you enjoy shooting?

Next to nobody "enjoys" shooting sub 9# bare muzzle hunting rifles with 30-06 level recoil. Lots of people pretend to so they don't feel soft but yet I never see people out burning 50+ rounds of 30-06 in a session. IMO that's because it's not fun getting slugged in the shoulder a bunch.

 

[LuketheDog]

I still use a lightweight lead sled from time to time but I don't put any weight on it to keep it in place.

This is what I do when mounting a new scope, maybe 5-6 shots off the unweighted sled to get it printing on paper and then I use my sandbags.

Have a friend (or somebody else, but who is a good shot) shoot the rifle and see what happens. Then take it to a gunsmith if something is still wonky.

 

[npaden]

This is what I do when mounting a new scope, maybe 5-6 shots off the unweighted sled to get it printing on paper and then I use my sandbags.

I always wonder how much weight some of these guys must be using in a sled to wreck a scope. I have one that I use occasionally for one gun or another and haven't ever had an issue. I think I have 2lbs of weight in it I can't remember. The sled itself does weigh a little bit. There is still a decent recoil when the gun is fired.

I think you would need to be loading it up with 5 or 10 pounds of weights to get it to start wrecking scopes.

To the OP - I think the best course of action is to just find someone to go out shooting with you and swap guns like others mentioned. It would be a quick check to see if it is the gun or the shooter.

 

[44hunter45]

I wear muffs at the range.

Put in foam ear plus as well. This can make a huge difference.

I took one of my boys to a public range and we just sat in chairs and watched shooters. We wore hearing protection of course, but this can help get you accustomed to random gunfire.

Spend some time dry firing off sandbags. This can really help with target panic and form. You can focus on sight picture, breathing and smooth trigger squeeze. Lack of trigger discipline is a common cause of big groups like this.

I've always found the phrase, "let the trigger surprise you" a little bit of a misnomer. When you are really dialed in with a particular trigger, it's creep and break become ingrained in your muscle memory. You get a pretty good feel for when its going to drop.

Factory triggers can be notorious for being too heavy, too long, not crisp and too much overtravel. When dry firing, does it take effort to pull the trigger? It should be effortless. Even a 4-5 pound trigger can be smooth. This is something you can tell if you, as others have suggested, trade rifles with a known good shooter at the range.

At the range, use front and rear sandbags and do not even get on the trigger until the bags are positioned such that the crosshairs rest on the target X ring. You want to be holding the rifle, all at rest on target, not pushing it to the bullseye. Good cheek weld with full circle in the scope. If the scope is mounted correctly, you will not have to jigger your head around to get a full scope picture. Then get your breathing right, safety off, and squeeze the trigger. Your non-trigger hand should be securing the rear sandbag or resting on the table. Not on the rifle.

There is a certain kind zen in shooting for me. Sometimes when you are off, it is better to just pack up and go fishing. Coming to the range carrying stress from family or work will effect
your shooting. Too much caffeine can effect your shooting. Take some time to do whatever you need (drug free ) to dump that stress before you get behind the rifle. I've done burpees, run in place, jumping jacks, etc. Go to the pistol range first and get your ya ya's before you go to the rifle range.

On a side note, it took me some time to get my shooting back where I expected it to be after I quit dipping snuff a few years ago.

This will sound weird, but I've used it to teach pistol shooting. Make sure the range is clear, then go through your target alignment, before you start to squeeze the trigger, hold that aim point and close your eyes. Focus entirely on breathing and trigger squeeze and make the shot. You will automatically stop fighting the crosshair placement. This technique helps immensely with flinching as well.

 

[4ohSick]

When I got the 7 Mag I hunt with now, I started to develop a flinch trying to zero it even though the recoil energy shouldn't be much greater than the 270 I was used to. One bit of advice - if it isn't working for you that day, stop. Don't try to force it, it just ingrains the bad habit worse. I got a Caldwell Tack Driver front bag and a rear bag and was able to get it sighted in and get used to shooting it with that, then switching to field positions (prone or off sticks) was way easier because I knew the gun was good. Also make sure your shooting sticks are supporting the stock, not the barrel.

 

[BrentD]

Next to nobody "enjoys" shooting sub 9# bare muzzle hunting rifles with 30-06 level recoil. Lots of people pretend to so they don't feel soft but yet I never see people out burning 50+ rounds of 30-06 in a session. IMO that's because it's not fun getting slugged in the shoulder a bunch.

I don't necessarily agree. But if shooting is an unwelcome necessity for a hunter, odds are he won't be much of a shot. Just my observations. Anyway, the question remains. Is it the Indian or the arrow?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I always wonder how much weight some of these guys must be using in a sled to wreck a scope. I have one that I use occasionally for one gun or another and haven't ever had an issue. I think I have 2lbs of weight in it I can't remember. The sled itself does weigh a little bit. There is still a decent recoil when the gun is fired.

I think you would need to be loading it up with 5 or 10 pounds of weights to get it to start wrecking scopes.

To the OP - I think the best course of action is to just find someone to go out shooting with you and swap guns like others mentioned. It would be a quick check to see if it is the gun or the shooter.

The sled i used to have looked like a lighter version but had to be over 15# and accompanied with the rubber feet on a concrete bench, it barely moved with a lightweight magnum on it and zero weight added. Scopes are not all that robust, it doesn't take much. A whole bunch of them out there have wandering zeros but people often cant shoot well enough to notice it.

I wouldn't argue that lead sleds damage more than a small % of scopes/stocks that are used in them. I would argue that if a shooter can't get just as stable or real damn close with a bipod and bag or front rest and rear bag then they should probably focus on that.

 

[TrumpkinTheDwarf]

In shooting sports, I have a rule of thumb... which is that "I'm usually the problem". Until you can self assess your trigger pull you can't chase tuning of the weapon. So start by learning yourself. At the end of the day, for a weapon system to function properly, you have to get through the trigger break without any unnecessary muscle input to the system. A heavy trigger is not a disadvantage in this situation, it's a tool. A hair trigger doesn't give you enough time under tension to assess whether the trigger pull is steady, slow, and smooth.

Go shoot, focusing specifically on your trigger pull, and be really honest about whether you are maintaining a steady pull all the way till the end of the trigger range of motion. What I mean, is that the shot going off is not the end of your trigger pull. It ends, when the range of motion is gone. Set your definition of successful shooting as repeating the fundamentals perfectly, not on where the bullet hits. Try to maintain the same direction of pressure, and smooth increase in tension past the point of the rifle going boom. Put all your mental energy into finishing that movement properly. Don't even worry about the crosshairs dancing a bit. Actually talk to yourself as you pull the trigger... "Keep pressing, keep pressing, keep pressing, BOOOM. Keep Pressing"

If you set up on sandbags, set the sights in the center so the crosshairs don't move, and execute 10 perfect trigger break movements, you can give yourself permission to pay attention to the group, and start diagnosing the gun.

 

[woods89]

-Ditch the sled.

-Recoil is an issue for a lot of people, even at 270 levels.

-The best thing I've done for my shooting is buying a 223 bolt gun. It's cheap to shoot and very low recoil. I shoot a few hundred round a year through it and it has been extremely helpful.

-Scopes are not as reliable as people think, and I would not consider Leupold a robust scope. A lot of little inconsistencies just disappeared when I started using Nightforce and SWFA scopes.

-The bench is for establishing acceptable precision and a good zero. Get away from it as soon as possible and work on field shooting skills.

 

[Sheltowee]

Echoing what a few others have said-- buy a quality, bolt action .22 with a similar scope setup to your hunting rifles + a case of good ammunition. Focus on good trigger press and following through your shot. Crosshairs should barely move off of the target as the shot breaks. Eventually, you will build up enough subconscious muscle memory that it will translate to your centerfire rigs.

Or you can just have @p_ham put a massive honkin brake on the end and be the bane of everyone shooting near you's existence.

 

[Djfan]

When I got the 7 Mag I hunt with now, I started to develop a flinch trying to zero it even though the recoil energy shouldn't be much greater than the 270 I was used to. One bit of advice - if it isn't working for you that day, stop. Don't try to force it, it just ingrains the bad habit worse. I got a Caldwell Tack Driver front bag and a rear bag and was able to get it sighted in and get used to shooting it with that, then switching to field positions (prone or off sticks) was way easier because I knew the gun was good. Also make sure your shooting sticks are supporting the stock, not the barrel.

I absolutely did leave, came home thinking "How can I address this?" So, I posted here, texted pics to my gunsmith, sought links and youtubes, and called a buddy (who didn't answer). The best info so far has come from here.

 

[Djfan]

In shooting sports, I have a rule of thumb... which is that "I'm usually the problem". Until you can self assess your trigger pull you can't chase tuning of the weapon. So start by learning yourself. At the end of the day, for a weapon system to function properly, you have to get through the trigger break without any unnecessary muscle input to the system. A heavy trigger is not a disadvantage in this situation, it's a tool. A hair trigger doesn't give you enough time under tension to assess whether the trigger pull is steady, slow, and smooth.

Go shoot, focusing specifically on your trigger pull, and be really honest about whether you are maintaining a steady pull all the way till the end of the trigger range of motion. What I mean, is that the shot going off is not the end of your trigger pull. It ends, when the range of motion is gone. Set your definition of successful shooting as repeating the fundamentals perfectly, not on where the bullet hits. Try to maintain the same direction of pressure, and smooth increase in tension past the point of the rifle going boom. Put all your mental energy into finishing that movement properly. Don't even worry about the crosshairs dancing a bit. Actually talk to yourself as you pull the trigger... "Keep pressing, keep pressing, keep pressing, BOOOM. Keep Pressing"

If you set up on sandbags, set the sights in the center so the crosshairs don't move, and execute 10 perfect trigger break movements, you can give yourself permission to pay attention to the group, and start diagnosing the gun.

Good stuff. Will do. Thanks.

 

[grizzly63]

If its recoil and anticipating, its going to kick the same if you jerk or not. Hold it to your shoulder, get the good repeatable sight picture, squeeze slowly and let it buck without you knowing when its coming. If you close your eyes anywhere in the process, you need work.

 

[Djfan]

Maybe someone already mentioned this, but if you have a friend that has a gun that shoots well, let him shoot your gun and you shoot his. That will identify if it is your gun or you.

Do you enjoy shooting?

Love it!

 

[BrentD]

Love it!

Then do the gun swap thing, or at least get a person that shoots a big gun well, shoot yours and see what happens.

 

[SwaggyD]

I had a .270 that I shot like shit. Got a 7mm and shot that unbelievably well. Killed everything from antelope to elk with it. I guess I killed all those species with my .270 as well, but when I squeezed the trigger of the 7mm, I knew it was dead animal. The recoil from my .270 was much worse. I wasn’t comfortable. That said, not to be mean, I think it’s the shooter and you gotta find a way to get comfortable with those rifles, or get different rifles you’re comfortable with.

 

[ImBillT]

No amount of practice will fix a bad gun and/or bad ammo.

For longish shots, I only take them if I have a good rest/position. I occasionally practice shooting offhand, and did so A LOT before I got married. Currently I wouldn’t take an offhand shot much past 100yds. Last year I killed a cow elk at 575yds seated and using shooting sticks.

Practice is good, but if your rifle isn’t accurate enough off a bench, then you aren’t the only problem in the system.