Airport Whiners shut up...

[Moosie]

Speaking of Youtube... Remmember when you could do this at the airport ?!??!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB3NPNM4xgo

I remember picking some friends up at the Airport on 9/4 that flew in for archery elk just before 9/11 and bringing a Bugle (Full Size) though the gates and hid behind the pillar and when they came out I blew on it. Fetching Hillarious !!! No more of that crap now a days. ALL fun and games till someone blows up a plane

 

[schmalts]

I guess to those who think these searches and scans do nothing to help deter a plane from being blown up, i can't help but think your logic would cross over to other things.
So, if the Law enforcement agencies said they were no longer going to use radar and laser, and would no longer look for speeders on the roads do you guys think that there would be no spike in the amount of people who would break the speed limit?
this is the same logic is it not?

 

[lilbiggun]

I dont fly, even before these scanners, etc. My question is if the US is doing this and most foreign countries are not, and most of what has happened has been from folks who flew in from different countries, what are we doing? all you have to do is originate in some foreign country, do not leave the secured area and wait til you hit American soil.

You dont hear of to many terrorist attempts that originate in the US.

 

[Bucnutz.wis]

You dont hear of to many terrorist attempts that originate in the US.

And that's exactly why this thread was started...good post.

 

[justdada]

I guess to those who think these searches and scans do nothing to help deter a plane from being blown up, i can't help but think your logic would cross over to other things.
So, if the Law enforcement agencies said they were no longer going to use radar and laser, and would no longer look for speeders on the roads do you guys think that there would be no spike in the amount of people who would break the speed limit?
this is the same logic is it not?

Dude, seriously? I hate to sound condescending, but are you high?
Are you equating highway speed limits to illegal search??
I don't know you from Adam but it doesn't seem like you are even reading people's replies

 

[Moosie]

I don't know you from Adam but

Adam doesn't talk with a Funny accent and doesn't wear french biker shorts

 

[schmalts]

Dude, seriously? I hate to sound condescending, but are you high?
Are you equating highway speed limits to illegal search??
I don't know you from Adam but it doesn't seem like you are even reading people's replies

What don't you get? I think your not the one reading. This thread has not only been about "illegal search" but the effect it has or has not had on the attempts to blow planes out of the sky.
Let me re-cap for you. It is being said by some that these searches TSA has been doing have no effect on terrorists trying to blow up planes. You can't see the same logic wondering if police not shooting radar anymore wouldn't cause a spike in speeding?

 

[lilbiggun]

Actually justdada, its one of those internet "I can complain, but if you argue back your wrong" type of things.

Luckily we still have the freedom of speech thingy attached to some document that we may have heard of. Unfortunately it must only be addressed to schmalts, since we cant disagree with him.

I tell you what if my biggest concern of the day, is what some other people think of a situation that I cant control, I'm doing good. Some folks need to get a life.

 

[schmalts]

And that's exactly why this thread was started...good post.

Bingo, you nailed it.
I see Lilbigun doesn't enjoy a good old debate like some do. You don't have to read it if you don't want to...

 

[lilbiggun]

Whats there to debate? its happening, just like everything current and past administrations have done. Only thing the normal folks can do is vote the bastids out on election day.

we are no longer innocent until proven guilty because of liberals and fear. we now have to prove our innocense (spelled wrong I know).

 

[Moosie]

Argueing on the Internet is like Winning the Special olympics...............................

 

[belly-deep]

Argueing on the Internet is like Winning the Special olympics...............................

You mean its real fun to participate in and even better to watch and laugh at?










Note: I wouldn't really laugh at the Special Olympics. That was just a joke.

 

[Sytes]

Sytes, you don't think we please the Muslim Extremists everytime we pit thousands of entry level civil service functionaries against the general public with kneejerk overkill?

You ever listen to Allen West?

My personal beliefs of the pat downs are to hopefully diminish as more body scanners are installed.
The airports that have the body scanners and offer optional pat downs are ideal, IMO.
The airports that do not have body scanners - result in selective pat downs... (shhh - media hype would drown in their elevated banter if this was actually objectively reported...)

I believe body scanners handled by professionals... be it seasoned TSA professionals that have qualified themselves to levels acceptable would be a good direction and one that is currently in the works. Entry level TSA screeners are not the ones working the scanners...

IMO, (as everyone has their opinion) I don't personally like pat downs... for travelers. I believe it was and is the right move until we get scanners to replace... Pat downs success are subject to a screener's ability / trained skill to identify anomalies... whereas computer generated scanners reviewed by qualified and constantly trained professionals reach a more difinitive result.

So, I suppose to answer your question... I could care less about what the terrorist think as they will gladly take claim to failed attempts - simply to raise that "fear" within the public that they tried to murder Americans.
I believe upon the burst of intel on applications to attempt successful terror to Americans and the slow rate of implimenting scanners (mainly due to costs) - pat downs are a necessary function to reduce such body carriers.

To Allen West's considerations - well, I am proud of a person who has served our country to the point of saving American lives by firing his sidearm adjacent to a terrorist with intel needed - that was previously not being provided - He then was "force" retired from duty - and I believe if it came down to it again - he would do it again... An honorable man in my book. I respect his belief on pat downs as being very invasive... - and I believe his thoughts are along the same lines - pat downs while not ideal are a necessary function until they can be replaced as stated above. The scanners are a good move away from pat downs.

Those with an agenda to cause harm to innocent humans will claim fame to failed attempts, and yes - even claim fame to "inconvenienced" travelers...

 

[CJ...$]

I understand terrorism, you don't. They want planes for fear reasons. One plane going down is chump change compared to how many die in autos yes, but it is the fear and horror associated with jet crashes they want. Also the number of people they kill at once. They also want the huge financial havoc it plays when airports are shut down for days. They want the media coverage.
Plane crashes are a mess and creates more fear than someone that walks into Mcdonalds with C4 or an AK47.
"They want to fly them into buildings to make a statement" Really? no shit, but they will still rather take down a plane with or without a sky scraper to fly into. Did the shoe bomber, the underware kid, and the guys who were going to mix different gels together to make a bomb goig to fly the plane into a building?? No...... your wrong dude

Schmalts makes some good pts...terrorism is about fear... 9/11 was their superbowl..and the thread is about TSA and flying....We have been safe and Lucky while flying...Flying is the safest way to travel...

 

[noharleyyet]

Ok Sytes, substitute embolden for 'please'.

 

[justdada]

What don't you get? I think your not the one reading. This thread has not only been about "illegal search" but the effect it has or has not had on the attempts to blow planes out of the sky.
Let me re-cap for you. It is being said by some that these searches TSA has been doing have no effect on terrorists trying to blow up planes. You can't see the same logic wondering if police not shooting radar anymore wouldn't cause a spike in speeding?

Do I believe the ADDED TSA measures have an effect on terrorists blowing up planes, is this what you are asking?
IMO the old secruity measures (which included less 'intimate' pat downs), were an equal deterrent to terror. Have there been a lot of terrorists arrested as a direct result of the new measures? That would certainly change my opinion about the effectiveness.

I conceed the scanners are more effecient in detecting potentially dangerous items on a person, but am again inclined to mention that being forced to allow someone to view my children naked is not something I'm prepared to accept.

As to the unrelated hypothetical speeding question. Yes, I'm sure more people would speed if cops stopped checking.
However, a closer relation would be drawn between the new TSA measures and police pulling you over without cause and searching you and your vehicle.
Would that be ok with you schmalts? If YOUR wife or mother was pulled over averytime they got on the highway and searched? How about if the cop told you it was to thwart bridge and tunnel terrorists?
How much of our freedom is too much?
Where is your line?

 

[WV Hunter]

Put the old measures in place and start profiling

My 11 and 3 year old daughter should not be getting pat downs and body scans but the 19 year old Yemen student wanting to come to the USA and move around freely should have a background check and anal cavity search before getting on a plane. YMMV

 

[Moosie]

TSA Agents are like Rent a cops. Nothing professional about it.

 

[belly-deep]

TSA Agents are like Rent a cops. Nothing professional about it.

Agreed.

Doctors, police officers, etc are well-trained individuals who act professionaly most of the time. I don't trust a TSA agent. Some are very professional, no doubt, but as a whole they are a poor choice to be given the responsibility of violating our rights.

 

[schmalts]

As to the unrelated hypothetical speeding question. Yes, I'm sure more people would speed if cops stopped checking.
However, a closer relation would be drawn between the new TSA measures and police pulling you over without cause and searching you and your vehicle.
Would that be ok with you schmalts? If YOUR wife or mother was pulled over averytime they got on the highway and searched? How about if the cop told you it was to thwart bridge and tunnel terrorists?
How much of our freedom is too much?
Where is your line?

My answer to your first one is hard to say because it is somewhat hypothetical because we really don't have much concern of bridges and tunnels to speak of.
If there was a high probability that they expected or had bridges and tunnels blown up in the past that would be a more legit comparison. If that was the situation i would maybe have a different opinion. So to be honest, i really cant make a stance on that one.

As far as how much freedom is too much, that all depends on what the risks and threats are to be honest. You already know I don't feel that going through a scanner or pat down if I refuse the scanner is too much freedom to give up in the current threat level. I have a young kid too, and as much as I don't want him patted down, i also don't want his last memories to be clutching the seat in front of him in -30F temps as a jet falls apart in mid air. Just my opinion, and that is what debates are about.
I don't like it anymore than you, but the terrorist threat is real and sadly is not going away soon. That is how the terrorist are winning, they are taking away some freedoms via precautions.
On a side note, anyone ever see the movie "kingdom of heaven"? when I saw it a couple years ago i couldn't help but think Damn, it is still kind of the same old fighting thing just modified now isn't it?