Administration Removing Protections from Tongass National Forest

[Oak]

Although I don't think grazing on BLM and Forest Service land is something that actually makes a profit when it is all said and done either.

That's an understatement.

 

[SAJ-99]

I would rather they logged it and utilized the trees instead of letting them stand to get blown down by high winds and rotting. I have been there several times. Thats what happens in old growth timber that is a 100 + years old.

We have such a shortage of lumber right now in the US its pathetic. I am tired of the east cost trees being cut to be put on trucks and shipped to comifornia, Oregon, and Washington to re-build houses that have burned because of their liberal policies when they have renewal resources just to the north of them.

 

[Trial153]

Unless your lining your pockets and just dont give a shit this is a freaking stupid idea.

 

[geetar]

What a shame that a place like DC has so much control over the future of pristine wilderness.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

What a shame that a place like DC has so much control over the future of pristine wilderness.

Or Utah

 

[westbranch]

When I was on my last bear hunt on POW we had a cabin next to some guys that were there logging. It was very interesting talking to them about the big differences between logging there and a typical western mountain forest. They have to include a thinning after they do a cut where the come back and thin out most of the thousands of volunteer trees coming back up. In the typical western forest they actually have to go back in and plant trees. The road building there is completely different too. They have to build pretty much a real road with a rock base and the whole works, not just flatten out a ledge with a bulldozer.

With all that said, it seems insane to spend billions of taxpayer dollars so that lumber companies can make a profit logging public land. Although I don't think grazing on BLM and Forest Service land is something that actually makes a profit when it is all said and done either.

Just to piggy back off this, but I am sure I will butcher it compared to the guys that actually know the details/reasonings. My understanding is that in Northern ID they do a lot of replanting to get logged areas and/or burn areas to be further along in the natural succession than they would be otherwise and to have a more natural forest type. Most of the areas regenerate fairly easily on their own but the first trees that come in after logging are not as desirable and not necessarily the "natural" mix of trees/shrubs that would have been there before. A couple projects along those lines:

Project in the Clearwater region of ID related to aspen, Bugle magazine had an article about this sometime in the past year:

F&G and partners generate $400,000 for elk habitat improvement projects in the Clearwater Region

Over the past year (2019) Fish and Game, the U.S. Forest Service, and Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation have generated approximately $400,000 for collaborative elk projects to improve elk habitat in the Clearwater Region.

idfg.idaho.gov

More detailed environmental impact report, see pages 12-13 of this PDF for some description of project related to a burn area in the ID Panhandle:

https://www.fs.fed.us/emc/nepa/revisions/includes/docs/restoration/proposedces/grizzlyfire-ea.pdf

 

[Mallardsx2]

Clinton with his liberal policies initiated rules/policies to limited the USFS to thin out a dense foliage and downed trees on federal land. These policies make it almost impossible to complete prescribed burns, which are designed to help prevent massive forest fires.

 

[MTLabrador]

Clinton with his liberal policies initiated rules/policies to limited the USFS to thin out a dense foliage and downed trees on federal land. These policies make it almost impossible to complete prescribed burns, which are designed to help prevent massive forest fires.

The BLM and USFS have done quite a bit of logging, thinning, prescribed burns, and other treatments in many places I’m familiar with in Montana and Wyoming.

 

[Irrelevant]

Clinton with his liberal policies initiated rules/policies to limited the USFS to thin out a dense foliage and downed trees on federal land. These policies make it almost impossible to complete prescribed burns, which are designed to help prevent massive forest fires.

Our NF does two rounds every year, spring and fall. Fall just wrapped up.

Here are this years:


As you can see about 1/3 are complete, 1 is active, and the rest are still waiting on better conditions.

 

[FI460]

Clinton with his liberal policies initiated rules/policies to limited the USFS to thin out a dense foliage and downed trees on federal land. These policies make it almost impossible to complete prescribed burns, which are designed to help prevent massive forest fires.

That's one single leg, along with drought conditions that make prescribed burning very difficult in Oregon and California, smoke mitigation, and a lack of funding for the projects.

While Oregon may not produce the lumber it did back in the mid 20th century, it's still one of the top producers of softwood products in the nation. Something makes me suspect that we're not buying our doug fir 2x4s from Eastern states.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Clinton with his liberal policies initiated rules/policies to limited the USFS to thin out a dense foliage and downed trees on federal land. These policies make it almost impossible to complete prescribed burns, which are designed to help prevent massive forest fires.

Since Clinton, We've had HFRA, which relaxed regulations & allowed for increased stewardship contracts, etc to help do this, we've also had the 2015 Farm Bill (Thanks Obama) that set up the Good Neighbor policy by which states could work closely with the Fed to enact stewardship projects and we've had the current administration who has encouraged California to rake the forest. but sure, Clinton is to blame.

What nobody has addressed with any kind of realism or meaningful approach is to fund the USFS & BLM to get funding down to the project level, while still funding all of the other work. Likewise, we just had a thread where it was discussed that even after the fire-fund fix, that money is gone and cannot be accounted for by the current administration, making these situations worse.

None of this applies to a temperate rainforest that is not fire-dependent for restoration or it's basic ecological functions.

 

[Mallardsx2]

That's one single leg, along with drought conditions that make prescribed burning very difficult in Oregon and California, smoke mitigation, and a lack of funding for the projects.

While Oregon may not produce the lumber it did back in the mid 20th century, it's still one of the top producers of softwood products in the nation. Something makes me suspect that we're not buying our doug fir 2x4s from Eastern states.

Tell that to the dozens of truck drivers leaving my local plant heading west daily to run loads of lumber to California and Oregon.

Meanwhile a 2X4 is $9 here and a sheet of OSB is $42...and the price of stick building a new home has doubled in the last year.

I am not saying they need to knock the forest to the ground. But a select cut to boost the local economy isn't a bad thing.

Bottom line is that I support select harvest logging. I always will. Pending it it done responsibly of course.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Tell that to the dozens of truck drivers leaving my local plant heading west daily to run loads of lumber to California and Oregon.

Meanwhile a 2X4 is $9 here and a sheet of OSB is $42...and the price of stick building a new home has doubled in the last year.

I am not saying they need to knock the forest to the ground. But a select cut to boost the local economy isn't a bad thing.

Bottom line is that I support select harvest logging. I always will. Pending it it done responsibly of course.

Funny how a trade war w/Canada over lumber imports hurts us so much at the wallet, eh?

 

[tjones]

Tell that to the dozens of truck drivers leaving my local plant heading west daily to run loads of lumber to California and Oregon.

Meanwhile a 2X4 is $9 here and a sheet of OSB is $42...and the price of stick building a new home has doubled in the last year.

I am not saying they need to knock the forest to the ground. But a select cut to boost the local economy isn't a bad thing.

Bottom line is that I support select harvest logging. I always will. Pending it it done responsibly of course.

What local plant would that be? A treater of a sawmill?

34 years in the lumber business tells me shipping eastern spruce framing lumber completely across the country can not be competitive to west coast prices.

 

[BigHornRam]

Funny how some people have no problem with other countries clearcutting their temperate forests, manipulating their currency, dumping their lumber, and putting our companies out of business. All the while living in a stick framed house.

 

[FI460]

Tell that to the dozens of truck drivers leaving my local plant heading west daily to run loads of lumber to California and Oregon.

Meanwhile a 2X4 is $9 here and a sheet of OSB is $42...and the price of stick building a new home has doubled in the last year.

I am not saying they need to knock the forest to the ground. But a select cut to boost the local economy isn't a bad thing.

Bottom line is that I support select harvest logging. I always will. Pending it it done responsibly of course.

The Largest Sawmills & Lumber Producing States in the U.S.

Click here to learn all about production for the lumber industry. Learn the largest sawmills in the USA, as well as top producing states & more.

www.yorksaw.com

My 2 minutes of Googling suggests that Oregon is both the #1 producer of softwood and plywood. California comes in at #5 for softwood.

I don't think your complaint is a forest management issue, it's an economics issue. Your local plant is getting a better price shipping it out of state, or possibly out of country? I imagine any inland timber outfit would be hauling their lumber to Oregon, California, or Washington for export.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Funny how liberal some Republicans are with federal spending when they think it will help their pocketbook.
What has the national debt been doing under a good economy?
Under a truly good economy we shouldn't have such debt increases. This is how the current administration is "boosting" the economy in a sacrificial way.
That money is going into corporate pockets.

 

[mtmiller]

Tell that to the dozens of truck drivers leaving my local plant heading west daily to run loads of lumber to California and Oregon.

I see lots of lumber on rail cars in northern Montana.....none headed west. weird

 

[SAJ-99]

Funny how some people have no problem with other countries clearcutting their temperate forests, manipulating their currency, dumping their lumber, and putting our companies out of business. All the while living in a stick framed house.

So you are suggesting we should feel sorry for US corporations? Tough sell. (and the correct chant is "Jobs,Jobs,Jobs")
Historicaly corporate America has proved to be very good two things : exploiting the vast expanse of this country's natural resources and exploiting labor. They are VERY good at both, and we all benefit with lower prices. The chart below shows 3yr of Lumber prices. No company has to bear the cost (unless they are horrible at business or want to assume the inventory pricing risk) as it passed on to the consumer. Maybe the consumer decides to do a 3000sq/ft house rather than a 4500sq ft house, or maybe they just buy the house anyway and borrow the money for 30yrs to pay for it. Nothing solves high prices better than high prices.

 

[BigHornRam]

So you are suggesting we should feel sorry for US corporations? Tough sell. (and the correct chant is "Jobs,Jobs,Jobs")
Historicaly corporate America has proved to be very good two things : exploiting the vast expanse of this country's natural resources and exploiting labor. They are VERY good at both, and we all benefit with lower prices. The chart below shows 3yr of Lumber prices. No company has to bear the cost (unless they are horrible at business or want to assume the inventory pricing risk) as it passed on to the consumer. Maybe the consumer decides to do a 3000sq/ft house rather than a 4500sq ft house, or maybe they just buy the house anyway and borrow the money for 30yrs to pay for it. Nothing solves high prices better than high prices.

View attachment 160065

You understand the lumber industry about as well as understand construction. Not at all. Carry on with your charts.