A Way to Repair Broken Points Systems?

[gallagher71]

I would agree with most of your post, but I for one don't think point systems suck. I love the fact that I can reasonably predict what tags I get. I will gladly pay for points, and even accumulate more than I need, in order to plan my hunting calendar.

I'd sure like to be able to predict as you say, but I'm not certain it's realistic to predict anything on a multi-year level with macroeconomic influence, hybrid systems, and bonus points v preference points where points are an advantage but not certainty even excluding creep.

 

[WIbiggame]

Because of this, my participation is limited to three states.

And if you went to 10pt max you would be able to possibly hunt every 10 years

 

[gallagher71]

And if you went to 10pt max you would be able to possibly hunt every 10 years

Nope. Every 10+ because you still have to draw against the rest for the higher point tags but your in the game after 10. Less popular tags still are less than max points.

 

[WIbiggame]

Nope. Every 10+ because you still have to draw against the rest for the higher point tags but your in the game after 10. Less popular tags still are less than max points.

The less popular tags won't be less they will be 10 too. Look at Wyoming as an example. People are applying in the general pool with 6-11 points when only 3 are needed thus driving the point creep faster. So when the balloon hits 10points it will just expand and expand and people will realize how crappy the odds of premium tags are and dump the 10p on less popular tags thus driving them up too.

 

[Huntnut60]

I think they should simply leave them alone. If you don’t like the system in place…simply apply in a different state.

100% agree. If you are 40yrs old and don’t have 15+ points in multiple states for multiple species, it’s not my fault. If you don’t have max pts in Wy for deer, elk and antelope? Not my fault. You had the chance to get in on the ground floor. If you are under 40, start applying now cause it might not change

 

[WIbiggame]

If you truly want to just have a chance at a tag why even set a max at points? Go straight random is all you are doing anyway. Just charging for 10 years to get into the random draw.

 

[RobertD]

(Not directed at just OP and also directed at myself)

What could change if we put as much energy into really pushing for improving wildlife populations and habitat as we do into debating all the awful lipstick-on-a-pig point systems?

I am constantly aware of the fact that I do so much to plan my next opportunity to kill something compared to my efforts to ensure another something steps up and takes its place.

No points system will solve for the main problem: Fewer tags more hunters. And random draws, allocation and price changes, etc just satisfy a portion of users but don't actually put more animals on a landscape.

We look at every part of the problem except the one part that takes the most to actually do something about I guess.

 

[bpeay4]

I agree you are right. You'd end up with a random draw from the 10-point holders for a lot of tags. But since there's no likely path where states will forgo the free point revenue they receive in these systems, it's a solution that puts an end to creep at the max 10-point level.

I'd rather have a random draw at 10 points and allow access back to more states than perpetual point creep with no clear end.

I'm with you, having random odds back in states like nevada and utah and those top tier tags in most states would be a dream. maybe one day...

 

[gallagher71]

(Not directed at just OP and also directed at myself)

What could change if we put as much energy into really pushing for improving wildlife populations and habitat as we do into debating all the awful lipstick-on-a-pig point systems?

I am constantly aware of the fact that I do so much to plan my next opportunity to kill something compared to my efforts to ensure another something steps up and takes its place.

No points system will solve for the main problem: Fewer tags more hunters. And random draws, allocation and price changes, etc just satisfy a portion of users but don't actually put more animals on a landscape.

We look at every part of the problem except the one part that takes the most to actually do something about I gu

Well said. A greater hunter voice comes with both a more dedicated hunter to hunter issues and more hunters.

ess.

 

[gallagher71]

If you truly want to just have a chance at a tag why even set a max at points? Go straight random is all you are doing anyway. Just charging for 10 years to get into the random draw.

Because states have made a promise to hunters and taken their money for decades. Can't just cast off their investment.

Maybe one day of that's the goal, but need a path to get there.

 

[gallagher71]

The less popular tags won't be less they will be 10 too. Look at Wyoming as an example. People are applying in the general pool with 6-11 points when only 3 are needed thus driving the point creep faster. So when the balloon hits 10points it will just expand and expand and people will realize how crappy the odds of premium tags are and dump the 10p on less popular tags thus driving them up too.

There are plenty of less popular tags less than 10 points in several states today. If you give a 7 point applicant a choice between burning his points or waiting there years and having his shot at max points level, doubtful more burn their points than those experiencing creep today.

 

[lenny4077]

I know this doesn't fix the point problem, and I haven't given it a ton of thought, but it might be a way to push people through faster. With me being a NR, I can only hunt out of state 1-2 weeks a year anyways. What if they started splitting some of the NR seasons into 2 week seasons that people could apply for? In some states like WY or MT for the general seasons and shoulder seasons, some of the seasons are months long. I'm not sure it would have much effect on harvest since the success rates are pretty low to begin with.

For example, if you had a unit that has a 4 week season and gives out 25 tags to non-residents, you could apply for the first 10 days, or the last 18 days of the season. This way you would be giving out 50 tags instead of 25 and move people through faster. Or use it as a transition to a full random type drawing to allow people to use up their points faster??

I thought of it when I was thinking of the North Dakota NR duck and pheasant hunting. You can buy a license for these over the counter, but you have to pick a 1 or 2 week period where the license is valid. MN does the same with some of their deer seasons to help spread out hunting pressure.

It's not a fully fleshed out idea, just wanted to get it out before I forget about it. And I need to get up to my first 10 posts somehow...

 

[WapitiBob]

four pages of this nonsense

 

[brockel]

Preference points just become bonus points.

 

[BradA]

I think there are a lot of issues with this, for one everyone would be at ten points and then we would be in same issue we are currently in.

Secondly these are all fun to try and figure out and talk about but let’s be honest what state is going to change the money making system they have already to something that makes less money for the same amount of people pushed through the system.

 

[JLS]

four pages of this nonsense

 

[Maverick1]

Cute thread. I'm sure the states will reference this thread, implement your system, and it will fix everything! Problem solved.

 

[brownbear932008]

So what your saying is trade one point scheme for another right? I don't see how this makes any difference at all. The only real solution is to throw any point scheme into the dumpster where it belongs in the first place. They have all been completely turned into a money making scheme by agencies and all of us suckers have fallen for them.

 

[huntin24/7]

I don’t really have much of a problem with a bonus point system where each point and year leaves you with a slightly better chance of drawing than the year before. You hear plenty of stories all over of guys drawing with 0 or 1 points in a true bonus point system. I’m personally much less of a preference point system fan.

 

[Flatrock]

Hmmm...so if someone thinks they have a better idea, they shouldn't share it?

Dude, this is just the same stuff regurgitated over and over. It's like the million "what's the best caliber" threads.

Here's a solution: Triple tag fees across the board. Every state. Every tag. There you go. Just fixed it. The guys who TRULY want to do it will make it happen.