A Way to Repair Broken Points Systems?

[Trial153]

Summery. You get extorted for 10 years and then you are on equal footing with everyone else that paid for 10 years worth of extortion.
Sign me up

 

[gallagher71]

Here's a crazy idea: If you don't like a state's draw system, don't apply. They are what they are.

Hmmm...so if someone thinks they have a better idea, they shouldn't share it?

I don't participate in some states today. I and others would if an opportunity were there. More participants is good for the future of hunting.

 

[gallagher71]

Summery. You get extorted for 10 years and then you are on equal footing with everyone else that paid for 10 years worth of extortion.
Sign me up

Ummm... isn't that what points are in NV and UT right now for a rifle hunter seeking an elk tag. Except for the reality that 10 years won't get you there under today's system?

10 years at $50 means it adds $500 to your total tag cost. Not trivial but far more are buying points today they'll never get to use.

 

[TheJason]

Except five years later, we're back to a functioning, random draw system at 10 points and point creep cases in most states.

LOL And it still smells like shit.

 

[gallagher71]

How about no OTC for NR, limit Colo to 90/10 split, and only residents can receive a tag in units that take more than 5 resident points. Increase the costs on nr tags to make up the difference. Then Colo could get rid of it's points system for NR, go random for NR. Your problem is solved. (rolls eyes)

Of course, if you don't like our systems, you could just not apply. No one is forcing you to apply. Also, if you are only interested in glory tags, and can't find value in readily available tags, maybe western hunting isn't for you.

First, I don't think Colorado is the real issue compared to others. They're blessed to have an abundance of game that's managed pretty well.

What I proposed gives the beneficiaries of the wildlife, the residents, more money because more hunters play while not taking away a single tag from a resident.

I absolutely agree each state gets to build their own system and as a non resident, I should never be able to make them bow to my wishes. However, an idea isn't a bad idea just because it came from a non resident either.

 

[Zim]

Damn, the horse just never stops getting beaten.

Yes. The only solution is to have more threads on this topic. Forever.

 

[gallagher71]

LOL And it still smells like shit.

Because we want point creep, fewer hunters participating, and people buying points they'll never use?

My question was "what am I missing?" I'm understanding you don't like it. I'm not yet understanding what's better about the status quo?

 

[gallagher71]

Just make it random. NM is doing just fine in terms of revenue and draw odds overall are pretty good and everyone has a chance every year.

I tend to agree. The problem is in these other states, thousands of people were promised something by the state who sold them their points.

 

[TheJason]

Because we want point creep, fewer hunters participating, and people buying points they'll never use?

My question was "what am I missing?" I'm understanding you don't like it. I'm not yet understanding what's better about the status quo?

Points are a scam. If it involves points it’s a scam. You can reshuffle the points all you want. You’re just moving the problem around.

 

[Lyfter1013]

Because we want point creep, fewer hunters participating, and people buying points they'll never use?

My question was "what am I missing?" I'm understanding you don't like it. I'm not yet understanding what's better about the status quo?

You’re missing the one major factor the reason for point creep is because there aren’t as many tags as there are hunters wanting said tags. Every year more people apply but tag numbers usually don’t increase, which means in turn it takes longer to draw the same tag. You can blame the point system all you want but it’s simple supply and demand. And no matter what point scheme you come up With to sugar coat it the outcome is the same.

Simple solution don’t invest in point schemes that don’t have a worth while
Payback for you. Don’t chase glory tags.

 

[gallagher71]

Points are a scam. If it involves points it’s a scam. You can reshuffle the points all you want. You’re just moving the problem around.

Points that can't be used are a scam. Points required to play are an increased cost but hunters still go hunting.

 

[TheJason]

Points that can't be used are a scam. Points required to play are an increased cost but hunters still go hunting.

LOL. Read Lyfter’s post. It’s supply and demand. You have demand that ALWAYS outstrips supply. No magic formula you come up with is going to rectify that. Unless you are taking people out of the point pool faster than they are going in, point creep is as real as VD.

 

[SC Living Outdoors]

I tend to agree. The problem is in these other states, thousands of people were promised something by the state who sold them their points.

The government promises all kinds of stuff that never happens, lol.

 

[gallagher71]

You’re missing the one major factor the reason for point creep is because there aren’t as many tags as there are hunters wanting said tags. Every year more people apply but tag numbers usually don’t increase, which means in turn it takes longer to draw the same tag. You can blame the point system all you want but it’s simple supply and demand. And no matter what point scheme you come up With to sugar coat it the outcome is the same.

Simple solution don’t invest in point schemes that don’t have a worth while
Payback for you. Don’t chase glory tags.

I agree.

More hunters than tags is scarcity and buying points with no return is foolish.

There's only two ways I know to manage the scarcity, price and time. I believe, my opinion, systems that allow more to play, even though there's a LONG wait, is good for hunting. It also generates more point income because more are joining the party. Ultimately, more money can allow more opportunity and more tags when managed well by the state which benefits the residents who are the beneficiaries of the wildlife trust.

 

[gallagher71]

LOL. Read Lyfter’s post. It’s supply and demand. You have demand that ALWAYS outstrips supply. No magic formula you come up with is going to rectify that. Unless you are taking people out of the point pool faster than they are going in, point creep is as real as VD.

Scarcity is real. It's managed by price or making hunters wait longer than they will live. Today, there's disclosure for neither in the broken systems. No idea how many years you'll have to continue to buy points and no idea how much creep will happen before you can use points you're buying.

 

[gallagher71]

The government promises all kinds of stuff that never happens, lol.

Not the responsibility I want to teach my kids hunting is.

 

[TheJason]

 

[Lyfter1013]

I agree.

More hunters than tags is scarcity and buying points with no return is foolish.

There's only two ways I know to manage the scarcity, price and time. I believe, my opinion, systems that allow more to play, even though there's a LONG wait, is good for hunting. It also generates more point income because more are joining the party. Ultimately, more money can allow more opportunity and more tags when managed well by the state which benefits the residents who are the beneficiaries of the wildlife trust.

When you “allow more to play” that will
Just mean more Applicants which will
Increase point creep Even further.

Also more funds going to the state doesn’t equate to more opportunities at all…

 

[gallagher71]

View attachment 213675

Hmmm... except these two got to drink the beer they paid for. LOL

 

[Hunting Wife]

I don’t see how your system improves anything. I think you are missing that your 10 point holders are not drawing tags and leaving the applicant pool any faster than folks draw and leave the pool now. All that happens is the number of 10 point holders balloons because more people enter the group with 10 points than leave it every year. Eventually most applicants all have 10 points and it’s effectively a random draw with a 10 year waiting period. What did that accomplish, exactly?

Just go random and be done with it.