A Navy Veteran’s perspective on racism

[Woodrow F Call]

Not addressing your mom of course VG, but shouldn't we demand a valid voter ID card using E-Verify to prove that you are actually a bona fide US Citizen? I for one didn't stand on the wall defending my Country to have illegals and other ineligibles outright steal my birthright from me. I hold that precious. You want to see a revolution in this country then allow that to occur. We'll put an end to that nonsense lickity split. Arguing that its inconvenient for someone to be registered and justly recognized to vote is laughable and if true so what? That's another "you" problem not societies. I'd like US to go back to the additional standard that you have to be a Real Property owner to actually cast a ballot. If you're not then you have no skin in the game of the future of your Country.

No skin in the game? Somehow one's opinion does not matter unless they own physical property? An 18 year old with an M16 in a far away land doesn't get a say? The people who drive our economy in a big city don't deserve to be heard because they live where property can't be bought without being wealthy? What about the old man who liquidates his property to live a more comfortable remainder of life? Do you need to wait until your mortgage is paid since you don't own the land yet?

I understand we don't want voter fraud. I just don't see how that would be fair. It would essentially be the same as taxation without representation as we all get taxed. Only the elite/wealthy would be represented..... that sounds like why we rebelled in the first place.

 

[3855WIN]

This is a local Black teacher that runs a kayak business on the side. He gets a lot of new people into the outdoors, including many Black customers. For people not raised in an outdoors family , it can be intimidating. Kudos to Chris for opening up opportunities.

Capital City Kayak Adventures’ Chris Lockhart

Jackson native and high school science teacher Chris Lockhart is the owner of Capital City Kayak Adventures, a company offering guided water tours and fun in and around the Jackson metro area.

www.finditinfondren.com

 

[Duck-Slayer]

Hmmm. Most instances I've witnessed in my life were not quite that simple for the folks involved. My experiences with minorities were with tribal families.

Family in my home town that I grew up with. Seven kids. White father and Ojibwe mother who got the chit kicked out of her on a regular basis. Dad is a regular at the pubs and mother is seldom seen. Mom dies tragically in her early forties from a cause that most locals say was easily treatable if the old man had not pissed away all the family's money on booze and mom could have been allowed even basic medical care.

When mom dies, the two oldest brothers, 16 and 17, move back to the reservation with distant family. The only daughter, all of 13 at the time, tries to raise the four younger brothers, ages 12, 11, 7, and 4. The youngest, not yet old enough to be in the public school vaccination program, gets polio at a time when the rest of the world only heard old stories about polio. Such is life when you can't afford health care. What they have for food is scarce and mostly due to the generosity of neighbors and churches. Clothing was an assortment of hand-me-downs we'd all seen other kids in town wearing in years past. If not for subsidized school meals, I'm not sure what they would have gotten to eat.

Eventually, the burden is too heavy. The sister and her next-in-line brother cannot carry the load any longer. After three years of valiant effort, the family is broken up by concerned state officials and dispersed; the sister and two brothers back to the reservation with distant family, one brother stays with a local white family, and the youngest to a local foster family who can help with his polio complications.

The four brothers were all within two years older or five years younger than me. Only two of them are still alive as I type this, with the 12 and 11 year-old later dying in their life prime and joining one of their older brothers, the 16 year-old, who suffered the same fate. Out of a family of seven, all mostly my age, three have already died and one lives a very difficult life due to complications of polio that was easily preventable.

Sorry, but I'm not buying the idea that the only thing holding those kids back was "themselves and the choices they made." Those kids were dealt a cruel hand that shouldered them with an unimaginable burden. It wasn't their choice for the old man to knock the hell out of mom whenever he got sauced down at the pub. It wasn't their choice to have mom die at a young age. It wasn't their choice to live in poverty beyond what any of us can imagine. I know this happens on reservations and with tribal families more than we care to admit. I suspect the urban communities stricken with generational poverty have a painful abundance of similar examples.

Those consequences had a great bearing on what future those kids could make for themselves. It would be nice if the world was as simple as you state. At least in my experience, such is not the case.

EDIT - If you want to read a remarkably painful non-fiction story written by one of those brothers mentioned above, one who somehow found his way forward, you can buy his book on Amazon at this link - https://amzn.to/3d1yxYl

Preaching to the choir.... hmmm didn’t know I was 1/4 Native American, lived in Trenton, ND. But somehow my parents made the right choices and I than followed in there footsteps and made good choices. You proved my point, the Dad and The mom made stupid choices and got stupid prizes! Which in turn F’d the kids. Also the Gov. gives plenty of help to anyone registered with a Tribe.
Matt

 

[406dn]

Preaching to the choir.... hmmm didn’t know I was 1/4 Native American, lived in Trenton, ND. But somehow my parents made the right choices and I than followed in there footsteps and made good choices. You proved my point, the Dad and The mom made stupid choices and got stupid prizes! Which in turn F’d the kids. Also the Gov. gives plenty of help to anyone registered with a Tribe.
Matt

Assuming you are an enrolled member,,by your own post, you have received plenty of help to get to where you have.

 

[VikingsGuy]

To the OP's original theme and to BigFins' challenge:

What do we do in our own little corner of public land hunting to help?

Certainly in the immediate time frame we can each endeavor to be more empathetic and more inviting when we see black Americans (and Hispanic Americans, Native Americans, Asian Americans and women) accessing our shared outdoors. A friendly face, a helpful hand, a few tips, calling out indignities such as poor service or harassment went we see it. By doing so we can make our shared heritage just a little more inviting to the 65% of Americans who were not born white males.

Short to mid-term, we can use our voices and our votes to demand that our politicians, our police departments and our school systems take seriously the concerns of under-served and under-represented communities. A well educated and gainfully employed population is not only good, it is good for public land advocacy. Except for the 10% of America who grow up on/near these western public lands, public land usage and advocacy is a luxury that is enjoyed after the bills get paid.

Mid-term, how do we engage these underrepresented groups in public land hunting? We have had many threads on this topic in general and the statistics suggest overall we are not that successful even connecting with new white male hunters, let alone other groups. FWIW - in my view, sustained interest in hunting comes from deep connections to other hunters and to the land that keep our interest through the ups and downs of the sport. It also grows from a deep connection to the outdoors and solid understanding/comfort with firearms/bows. Taking a newbie on a one time mule deer hunt is alone not likely to create a life long hunter/advocate. Just ask the outfitters about all the guys who come out with their new rifle for that one hunt and then disappear.

I don't have any magic answers to this last question, but in my own little way I am committing to investing time to introducing either hiking or shooting activities to an interested black American in my area. To nurture their interest in the outdoors by helping set up experiences, starting small just like my dad did with me and I did with my son. Maybe it starts out with hikes outdoors? Maybe it starts by introducing them to hunting firearms at the range. Range time is not easy to find in urban areas and I am lucky enough to have access to 3 local clubs. When they are interested I will take them squirrel hunting up at my cabin, or maybe pheasant hunting just south of town. When they express interest I will give them access to whitetail hunting on my land up north. More than just passing on my love of hunting and shooting sports to my son (daughters are not interested but have been given ample opportunities) and son-in-law, I will try to pass along to someone from a different community than my own. In the end, one more hunter won't change the world, but I do believe in doing what I can in my own little way.

More importantly than my thoughts, I really would like to hear from some of the non-white and non-male hunters on HT about what they think we can do to make them and others in their shoes more welcomed on our public lands. Time for me to stop typing and start listening . . .

 

[Duck-Slayer]

Assuming you are an enrolled member,,by your own post, you have received plenty of help to get to where you have.

Nope not enrolled, as I said before my parents made good choices and got out, depending on the gov. is one of the reasons our reservations look like garbage!
Matt

 

[Bigjay73]

@VikingsGuy
Do I have to be empathetic to Texans?

 

[Woodrow F Call]

@VikingsGuy
Do I have to be empathetic to Texans?

Texans have their own problems too. Mostly, it's the Texas Pride thing.

 

[Irrelevant]

@Duck-Slayer I don't disagree with that general sentiment in life, I have seen people tumble from a very privileged life because of poor choices and watched other at the bottom continue to make the same poor choices that keep them there. But I don't think that excludes the idea that racism still holds people back or makes life harder for them.

 

[Gerald Martin]

“ Dear Embryonic American,

Life is hard. It is harder if you make bad choices. Therefore it is imperative that you choose to be born into a stable two parent middle class family in an area with high paying jobs and a supportive community that can provide you with good examples of what it means to be a productive member of society.
Of course you can choose to disregard this advice, but if you do, be assured that your future choices will be even more important as you pull yourself up by your bootstraps to advance in society.
Should you disregard this advice you can expect a portion of your fellow citizens to be sympathetic towards you and say things like, “It must suck to be you. Should have made better choices.”

Good luck, future kid. Someday you will thank me for my advice.

Sincerely,
Metaphorical John Wayne “

Of course personal choice is a major factor in our success. But how do you know what success looks like and how to get there if you don’t have an example?

Framing a house and reading a blueprint seems simple to me now. It didn’t when I started working. Humans have incredible capacity to learn and grow. Especially so, when they are taught by someone who already knows a skill.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

@Duck-Slayer I don't disagree with that general sentiment in life, I have seen people tumble from a very privileged life because of poor choices and watched other at the bottom continue to make the same poor choices that keep them there. But I don't think that excludes the idea that racism still holds people back or makes life harder for them.

Agreed,

This day in age where people just look at resumes and don’t really do much of a in person interview I don’t believe that racism is a huge factor. I believe having an “in” at a particular place of employment is a bigger factor. My wife works in the school system and has applied 4 times at a local school. She one of the best in her profession, her current school, anytime she wants to change grades/classrooms/or what she teaches there is no refusal, they beg her every year not to leave. But yet can’t get a job at the local school because she doesn’t have an “in”, and does not know the principle. I mean there’s extenuating cercumstances like her principal now doesn’t want her to leave etc... but if she was a person of color they would claim racism and than she would automatically get the job..... our country has lots of problems and it’s not just systematic racism.
Matt

 

[Gerald Martin]

but if she was a person of color they would claim racism and than she would automatically get the job.....

Really? Say that out loud to yourself several more times. Some perspectives are connected to reality. Others, not so much.

I wanted to play pro football. When I asked to try out as quarterback they laughed at me. I threatened to sue for racism and then I got the job. Now my autograph is worth a minimum of $10,000.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

but if she was a person of color they would claim racism and than she would automatically get the job.....

Really? Say that out loud to yourself several more times. Some perspectives are connected to reality. Others, not so much.

I wanted to play pro football. When I asked to try out as quarterback they laughed at me. I threatened to sue for racism and then I got the job. Now my autograph is worth a minimum of $10,000.

Agreed in your example, I’m not saying in every job this is the case! I just showed an example in my life, that I have came across.
Matt

 

[Shangobango]

To the OP's original theme and to BigFins' challenge:

...In the end, one more hunter won't change the world, but I do believe in doing what I can in my own little way.

More importantly than my thoughts, I really would like to hear from some of the non-white and non-male hunters on HT about what they think we can do to make them and others in their shoes more welcomed on our public lands. Time for me to stop typing and start listening . . .

Well said. This is where I am as well.

I would also like to focus on youngsters. They are the future.

I have got to figure out the how and I need help with that. Luckily I have a diverse group of friends and acquaintances that hopefully can give some input and support.

That brings me to another point that I have been mulling over and it gives me a little hope. I know that change needs to come more quickly than it has but it seems to me that each new generation is less inclined to racist tendencies than the last. At least that seems to be true in my community. We need to speed up the process.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

How many boss’s are friends with persons that are part of the criminal statistics? And would hire that person? Is it systematic racism if they don’t hire that per? I’m not going to say anymore about this.
Matt

 

[Sytes]

Many "Americans" were faced w/ sanctioned racism. Seems though to even share such... It's racist. Affirmative Action.
@ 20, I lost my placement for firefighter w/ a letter that stated due to county obligation HR responsibility for Affirmative Action I was no longer in consideration and my placement queue was lost.

Racism rears its ugly head in many settings.

As my "black" friend says, I'm American. Love that statement.

Edit added: for sake of the thread that about every poster is in thread violation in one post or another here, and it's maintained a reasonable level of decorum;

I'll call my, "American" friend and make a point to get out for some fresh pine air and wet our lines... Eh, once the buzz suckin' skeeters reduce. He's a LEO as well, sick & tired of the labels associated with the color of skin... African, Asian, Mexican, European (?), White, Black, Brown...
We're American's. Let's go fish our American streams.

 

[SAJ-99]

Agreed,

This day in age where people just look at resumes and don’t really do much of a in person interview I don’t believe that racism is a huge factor. I believe having an “in” at a particular place of employment is a bigger factor. My wife works in the school system and has applied 4 times at a local school. She one of the best in her profession, her current school, anytime she wants to change grades/classrooms/or what she teaches there is no refusal, they beg her every year not to leave. But yet can’t get a job at the local school because she doesn’t have an “in”, and does not know the principle. I mean there’s extenuating cercumstances like her principal now doesn’t want her to leave etc... but if she was a person of color they would claim racism and than she would automatically get the job..... our country has lots of problems and it’s not just systematic racism.
Matt

What you are describing is a systemic problem. We tend to hire from our personal networks. Those networks tend to look a lot like us, so we get more of the same. Despite what we know about the strength that comes from team diversity, the pattern continues because we are all comfortable with it. When a problem is systemic it is embedded in the process in a way that perpetuates it. You don't need to rely on overt racism or sexism because the system reinforces the behavior by its very construction.

 

[thatsjet]

Very sobering read indeed. I'm disgusted anyone thinks a sport belongs to them because of the color of their skin. We can do better.

 

[Bigjay73]

This thread hasn't been all roses, but 22 pages of discussion about one if the most uncomfortable topics this country knows of, by a bunch of gun-toting rednecks has to be a good sign that we, as a whole, can make society what it ought to be one day. Hopefully sooner than later

 

[The Yetti]

Right before I retired from the Army a little over 3 years ago, I had 24 hour duty and was overseeing several other individuals on 24 hour duty as well. One was a black man, around my age, and since we had plenty of time, we chatted for quite a while. We were talking about opportunity and his side of the story was eye opening. He came from the ghetto, and was somehow lucky enough to join the Army to get out. He said that for the most part, there aren't any good role models, that a lot of kids get sucked into helping local gangs for money to help mom pay bills, and then get in trouble and can't even use the military as a way out. So when it is said that it's poor choices being made that is true, but when it's been that way for so long that no one even knows what the right choices are makes it a whole different ball game. From this we are talking about generational distrust for cops and not even knowing that there is a whole other world that they can go to outside of their home area.

This still shows nowadays. I believe I read somewhere that the majority of Americans that visit our public lands are white. Sure it may be a lack of interest from other ethnic groups, but a lot of it is just a lack of awareness as well as possibly an ingrained belief from years of oppression that public land owners are white Americans. Saying that "this isn't my problem, I didn't cause it" is pretty narrow-minded. Where would we be if Teddy, Pinchot and Leopold had taken the same mindset to the issues they took on their backs to give us what we have today? If nothing else, the thought that the more people that hold something valuable, the less likely our government is going to ruin it. If there was a way to show inner-city people that there are over 390 million acres for them to roam, and they had the opportunity to experience that, the support for our public lands, as well as the help it could provide for those stuck in the inner city, especially the children, to provide that hope, that goal, that example that there is a whole wonderful world out there for them to experience could only do good.