A growing problem

[JT88]

"Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares."
-Hebrews 13:2

We have a lot of problems in this world. Band aid fixes and handouts don't work, and letting violence and lawlessness go unchecked are not the solution. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending it's all going to be ok doesn't work either. People are complex and have complex problems that are magnified by family problems, drug and alcohol abuse, broken homes, etc...

It seems in all our distractions we've lost sight of what really matters in life and created a new type of monster

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Similar to hunting, it's not hard to figure out who has been out in the mix. Don't get me wrong, I could do more (way more) and am not some saint. Some people dedicate their lives to those needing an array of help, and give up every comfort to do so.

But if showing someone that they are cared for and expecting nothing in return is considered a waste of time, it might be time for a gut check. I cannot offer any realistic long term solutions, I'll leave that to the HT brain trust, which is apparently has this all figured out.

 

[Bigjay73]

Similar to hunting, it's not hard to figure out who has been out in the mix. Don't get me wrong, I could do more (way more) and am not some saint. Some people dedicate their lives to those needing an array of help, and give up every comfort to do so.

But if showing someone that they are cared for and expecting nothing in return is considered a waste of time, it might be time for a gut check. I cannot offer any realistic long term solutions, I'll leave that to the HT brain trust, which is apparently has this all figured out.

Pretty sure dodging feces, needles, punches and knives in downtown Denver is about as in the mix as you can get. I used to think the same as you, every person is a human who deserves dignity, blah, blah, blah. The real world has erased those delusions.

 

[BucksnDucks]

Let that just marinate a bit...

My mistake. Seattle must be a shining example for all to follow across the nation. Good point. Still not taking the kids there?
Care to answer any question about the current conditions?
My point is not to solve the problems in Seattle but use it as an example of what not to do if the issue of homelessness is just starting in other communities. Whether Seattle, LA or a small town the root causes are similar. You can feed the problems and attract more of it or use all resources to avoid a much bigger problem.

 

[BucksnDucks]

There it is

Oh. I guess because I'm not there it doesn't exist. If this is the best counter to my comments, I'm done. Thanks.
I have many years of experience with homelessness and watched the recent surge closely. If things are better in Washington or different concerns, please enlighten me. If the root cause is addiction, violence, abuse and mental health, I would love to continue

 

[Bigjay73]

We definitely have different life experiences and opinions on this matter. I think the one thing we all agree on is that this is one of the biggest problems we have in this country and it needs to be fixed. Until someone offers up a solution, this discussion has gone the way of a pointless FB post.

 

[BucksnDucks]

We definitely have different life experiences and opinions on this matter. I think the one thing we all agree on is that this is one of the biggest problems we have in this country and it needs to be fixed. Until someone offers up a solution, this discussion has gone the way of a pointless FB post.

Yep, it's headed the way of gotcha responses and no dialogue about what is really going on.
I will revert back to my original post. I don't have the answer to solve the current problems, but history shows there is a way to stop an emerging problem and a way to let it grow.
The example I offer is two neighboring counties. One so kind hearted it gives food, money, and laxed law enforcement to all. The other enforces laws and offers no "help" to those who wish to live in the parks and spend state cash assistance on drugs. It may be kicking the can when all the people travel to the "friendly" spot but one county is in the midst of a crisis, the other not.

"If you're community wants to "help" the homeless, use all the resources to get them off the streets. Literally, do not allow it period. Pass ordinances against vagrancy, illegal camping, creek pollution, park use hours and enforce it vigorously.
Help those who want help to leave this lifestyle but don't allow living/camping in parks etc. The sad reality is towns that just give money and no enforcement of laws are a destination for homeless.
Hand it out and they will come."

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Pretty sure dodging feces, needles, punches and knives in downtown Denver is about as in the mix as you can get. I used to think the same as you, every person is a human who deserves dignity, blah, blah, blah. The real world has erased those delusions.

I don’t disregard your opinion or experience, though I have my own and came to a different conclusion.

I have spent weeks with the homeless and addicts in Oakland’s Lower Bottoms and San Fran’s Tenderloin. Gunfire, prostitution, black tar heroin, crack pipes as common as gum, the whole 9. Not avoiding it, walking into it on purpose. I was threatened with being shot, I can see the guy’s face and him reaching into his leather jacket today; big bengal tiger on the back. Asked if I knew how many bullets a Glock 17 held. Right off the BART by Blondie’s pizza in SF. A formerly close now mid-20’s family member spent years homeless in SF.

Closer to home for most here, I spent many days at the old Pov in Missoula. Up and down Higgins, giving out bags of groceries, letting people say their piece, sane or not. Lest anyone be offended, those items were paid for with private dollars.

I maintain that showing care when when possible to give it, with no expectation of anything in return, should not be unusual. That’s what we all do for our children. Some people don’t have any family to offer that to them.

It doesn’t have anything to do with who does or doesn’t “deserve” dignity. I didn’t deserve a great home life as a kid, but I got it. It goes both ways.

Throwing tremendous amounts of taxpayer dollars at band aids is no solution, just as refusing to meet peoples physical needs is no solution. Granted there are a lot sillier things for money and goods to be spent on than those in need.

Spending tax dollars on prevention and youth engagement across at risk communities makes a lot of sense to me. There is no short term policy solution IMO, it’s a long game and always has been.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

What’s funny @Rhcuam ?

 

[MTLabrador]

It’s easy to dehumanize them if you’re just driving by and trying to ignore them. It’s a little different when you have to work with them and realize that they’re people too.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

And kudos to law enforcement and medical/fire first responders, many of whom deal with this issue daily.

 

[Marshian]

We can quote the Bible until we are blue in the face, 2 Thessalonians 3:10- “For even when we were with you, we would give you this command. If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.” So if you are are part of that legit minority of homeless, then surely you will have no problem staying sober if that’s what it takes to stay in a warming shelter, etc. For the rest, lump me in with the cold hearted crowd, IDGAF, and please pass and enforce the laws to keep it out of my kids playground, parks and storefronts. As for the medical community, my brother is an ER doc. Ask that subset how they feel about the homeless. He’s probably harsher than me and so are most of his coworkers. Burnout is incredibly high in that field from it. I am in medicine as well and have done numerous overseas volunteer trips to third world countries. Their homeless are a completely different animal than the majority of ours. I don’t have a solution for many social issues, murder and theft for example, but I know I don’t wanna tolerate them.

 

[Rhcuam]

What’s funny @Rhcuam ?

Did this bag of groceries change anybody’s lives? Did Listening the ramblings change any of their lives. Did listening to them provide excuses about how life wasn’t fair to them, or mom or dad didn’t hug them enough making either lives better.
I doubt it. When those people woke up the next day they were still mixed in with rampant drug use, prostitution, metal illness, and violence. Most of them by personal choice.

A fool‘s errand come to mind. That is what is funny.
I’ll say it again. You could give given them the balance in your bank account and they would’ve pissed it away and been homeless by the end of the month.

 

[BucksnDucks]

It’s easy to dehumanize them if you’re just driving by and trying to ignore them. It’s a little different when you have to work with them and realize that they’re people too.

Absolutely. That's why I try to spend a little extra time talking with them. That is how I have drawn my opinions through experience with what does not work. Handing out cash may feel good, but often just leads to the next high and the cycle continues.

Although walking through camps amongst the tons trash, needles, feces, and stolen property tends to harden one's feelings. Seeing parks and creeks rendered unusable. Having a gas tank punched with $900 damage for $30 of gas, stolen catalytic converters, and porch pirates does the same.
Providing an easy road for a drug/ alcohol addicted street life does more to dehumanize a person than internet comments or a drive by.

 

[MTLabrador]

Absolutely. That's why I try to spend a little extra time talking with them. That is how I have drawn my opinions through experience with what does not work. Handing out cash may feel good, but often just leads to the next high and the cycle continues.

Although walking through camps amongst the tons trash, needles, feces, and stolen property tends to harden one's feelings. Seeing parks and creeks rendered unusable. Having a gas tank punched with $900 damage for $30 of gas, stolen catalytic converters, and porch pirates does the same.
Providing an easy road for a drug/ alcohol addicted street life does more to dehumanize a person than internet comments or a drive by.

To be clear, I don’t hand out cash. I was just saying that my experience with them has been different and most homeless people I encounter started that life because of serious mental illness. Where I live, they’re typically not the people committing more serious crimes (other than stealing some steel reserve from gas stations) either. Might be completely different in California.

 

[BucksnDucks]

To be clear, I don’t hand out cash. I was just saying that my experience with them has been different and most homeless people I encounter started that life because of serious mental illness. Where I live, they’re typically not the people committing more serious crimes (other than stealing some steel reserve from gas stations) either. Might be completely different in California.

I hear what you're saying. I was agreeing with you about not dehumanizing. I just expanded a bit on why i think others express a harsher opinion. To he honest, I've felt like burning entire camps down, the same day I wanted to rescue the poor woman being trapped in this life by her boyfriend

 

[220yotekiller]

The issue isn't the amount of resources available, at least not where I live. The issue is RAMPANT drugs coupled with handouts that are perpetuated by society's continual removal of personal choice and personal responsibility for your choices.

look at colorado, it used to be great but the instant they legalized weed it went down the tubes.

 

[DouglasR]

and then we’ve got these Hollywood hunters aka mark kenyon trying to promote giving meat to these gawd damned shelters.
Literally feeding the problem!
Smh!
I swear!
Sad!

 

[thomas89]

Ooh my favorite part of this discussion! The holier-than-thou part!

No one here is saying take them all out back and hang ‘em high. We’re not monsters for being fed up and tired of places we love being turned to sh*t.

I believe every single “anti homeless” (not even the right term) argument made here is stating that there are those truly down on their luck, they are not all degenerates. But heaven forbid someone suggest the actual degenerates are held responsible.

Y’all got extra land to allow this free camping? Cool with your places being trashed? Aww come on, it’s not their fault!

 

[NR_Hunter]

worst part for me living in Minneapolis was seeing all the used condoms along the walking trail next to the homeless encampment.


Not because I was grossed out, but because god damn it sucked knowing dudes living on the street are getting were action than me.