PolitiFact - How much credit does Giuliani deserve for fighting crime?
SUMMARY: Rudy Giuliani touts his crime-fighting record from his days as mayor of New York, but many experts don't think
www.politifact.com
A "common sense" proposal that will piss off both sides
- Thread starter VikingsGuy
- Start date
www.politifact.com
DouglasR
Well-known member
You know where you won’t see a gun crime committed in Illinois?
A dispensary.
I’ve never been to one, but I’ve been told they pretty much always have 2-5 security guards with blowers ready to bust on scene.
A dispensary.
I’ve never been to one, but I’ve been told they pretty much always have 2-5 security guards with blowers ready to bust on scene.
L
longbow51
Guest
The Ottoman Empire 1911
Soviet Union 1929
China 1935
Germany 1939
Cambodia 1956
Cuba after Castro
And I'm leery of the "it can't happen here" argument.
Just in the past year, we have seen Canada seize assets of peaceful protestors, and now contemplating a gun ban.
Ministry of Truth leapt from the pages of fiction to Washington D.C.
Kids arrested for surfing, moms arrested for going to the park with their kids.
Very near to "show your papers, citizen" over Covid vax.
And an outright meltdown that a centrist might control a single social media platform.
And now we have "lung-sucking" 9mm rounds that need to be banned. Guess I'll send back my Hammer bullets; I have very very accurate Sigs and Berettas.
So, if these things don't make you want to cling to your First, Second, and Fourth Amendment rights, we are just on different pages.
I already offered Reason's pretty sophisticated Swiss cheese model where we could have addressed everything from poverty/fatherless/drugs/internet all the way up to final line of defense, BillTs willingly armed teachers. And VG laid out a pretty broad OP.
But now, it's if you don't want an AR ban you approve of dead kids.
Anyway, tagging out. Adios my friends. Go fishing
MTLabrador
Well-known member
Some of you guys really need to take up fishing, turkey hunting, or bear hunting.
Nick87
Well-known member
I wonder what the ratio is between new gun owners and that crime rate? Also how many of those crimes that were committed by people who were legal to have the gun in the first place.
"hollywood has people convinced they're a badass stuck at a desk job and ARs are the only effective ways to stop government overreach... but I digress."
My bad. Not sure how I took your statement to mean anything other than "over" regulation by the government.
Using the countries that recently (in roughly the last century) disarmed their citizens from longbow51's post above. Were the citizens of these countries over regulated...ie murdered by their government at a higher rate prior to or after being disarmed?
The Ottoman Empire 1911
Soviet Union 1929
China 1935
Germany 1939
Cambodia 1956
Cuba after Castro
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SAJ-99
Well-known member
How many were democracies? Did any out an add in the paper and say “turn in your guns so we can commit genocide”? The argument has no bearing on tighter gun control, but we should be able to work with the lessons to develop a better way to keep guns out of the hands of crazy people, at least legally. When the US government comes to confiscate guns we can talk.
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
I suggest free abortions for all the ladies that don’t want to be parents.. nip the problem in the bud.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Involuntary sterilization
I think we all agree that crazy people should not have guns. If someone is crazy and is a threat to society (with a gun or other type of killing device) they should be in a home for crazy people.
The most popular lefty politician the last 2 presidential primaries is a socialist. Democracies don't last forever. But they would last a hell of a lot longer if citizens have a way to keep tyrannical governments from becoming so tyrannical. I believe that an armed populace is a disincentive for govt to get too tyrannical. Can guns match a nuke or sidewinder missile? No, but armed citizens can make it very uncomfortable for those that wish to do us or our society harm.
You already know this but I guess it is your way of saying you don't care.....but when the govt comes for guns it will be too late for talking. Hopefully enough folks do care that the govt never takes that step.
BackofBeyond
Well-known member
Just pump the meds into the air supply system at Walmart. Problem solved.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Spike the Nascar punch?
SAJ-99
Well-known member
I’m happy to see we can agree on something. Maybe something to build on. However, your sense of history is skewed by your beliefs. You think owning guns saves you, I think believing it and supporting the concept of democracy is what saves us. See my post on the conundrum. Tongue in cheek but not a joke. Read the room- not HT, but the US populace.
ignorethefringes
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2016
- Messages
- 3,032
Along with ear gauge rings, face tattoo needles, scissors used to cut one's own bangs at home, etc.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
And every meatless burger...
DouglasR
Well-known member
And all the different forms of rowdy powder.
The Ottoman Empire 1911
Armenian genocide - Wikipedia
List of massacres in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia
Germany 1939
The Holocaust - Wikipedia
Cambodian genocide - Wikipedia
Political career of Fidel Castro - Wikipedia
My sense of history is skewed by....history. Your belief is a hope. You hope the concept of democracy is what saves us. Just in case your hope doesn't pan out and politicians try some evil stuff like politicians have always done throughout the history of the world, I'd like for US citizens to be armed.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
1. No one is talking about 100% de-arming all Americans.The Ottoman Empire 1911
Soviet Union 1929Armenian genocide - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
China 1935List of massacres in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia
Germany 1939
Cambodia 1956The Holocaust - Wikipedia
Cuba after CastroCambodian genocide - Wikipedia
Political career of Fidel Castro - Wikipedia
My sense of history is skewed by....history. Your belief is a hope. You hope the concept of democracy is what saves us. Just in case your hope doesn't pan out and politicians try some evil stuff like politicians have always done throughout the history of the world, I'd like for US citizens to be armed.
2. You can be armed with more than just weapons. You can support democracy when and where it erodes. You can support free elections, peaceful transitions of power, and voter rights. You can arm yourself with knowledge on how democracy works and empower others to become active members in it's functions.
3. To lose faith in democracy is to lose faith in America, all that it was built on, and all that it stands for. I will always have hope, and faith, in democracy.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
You want to assign causality. I.e, China took peoples guns and now it’s communist, or the Ottomans collected guns from Armenians so they could kill 1.5m of them, or Nazi’s collected guns so they could kill the Jews. You are taking extremely comlplicated situations and assigning blame to one thing to support your position. At best it is intellectually dishonest. And it has been pointed out that no one on this thread is supporting a broad confiscation of guns. Add discussion on the area of agreement and stop drifting. You are starting to sound paranoid.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
I hear this rationale all the time, but just don't buy it. Can you provide real-world examples of this? Did gun-toting soccer moms keep schools open during covid? Did armed Japanese Americans prevent their own internment? Did Blacks in the south during the 50s prevent jim crow laws? Hell, during the time of our founders, the fed govt. crushed the Whisky Rebellion.
Even in more formal civil wars/insurrections - those that have had a real effect were largely funded and supplied by outside governments, not self-supplied or self-funded to any meaningful extent.
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