6.5x284, hhmmm?

[ImBillT]

The reason for jamming the bullet is so that when the firing pin strikes the cartridge case DOES NOT MOVE forward so that all of the pressure goes to moving or blowing out the shoulder. With the commercial availability of factory cases, there is little need to mess with .284 Win cases any longer.

I know the reason. I also know that it doesn’t work. The case still moves forward. It just seats the bullet a little deeper in the neck. The reason that you have fireformed so many 6.5-06AI cases successfully is because seating the bullets for hard jam is totally unnecessary to prevent the case from moving forward. The neck shoulder junction provides the resistance. That’s not the case when the chamber has .005”+ excess headspace.

 

[Bigmo58]

Do Norma and Berger not offer ammo?

Nosler and hsm are the only ones I’ve seen and I work at sportsmans warehouse. Hornady nosler Norma and Lapua make brass.

 

[antelopedundee]

Nosler and hsm are the only ones I’ve seen and I work at sportsmans warehouse. Hornady nosler Norma and Lapua make brass.

Doubletap offers ammo. See the Graf link in another post.

 

[ImBillT]

Nosler and hsm are the only ones I’ve seen and I work at sportsmans warehouse. Hornady nosler Norma and Lapua make brass.

Norma makes ammo for it. I’m surprised Berger doesn’t, but it is a cartridge from a direct competitor...but they make Creedmore ammo..

 

[antelopedundee]

Looking at a 6.5x284. Any thoughts on this cartridge? How hard is it to find factory or specialty ammo? I can hand load, but my 6 yo likes to help, not the best combo. Thanks.

You can handload when he's sawing logs.

 

[1_pointer]

Norma makes ammo for it. I’m surprised Berger doesn’t, but it is a cartridge from a direct competitor...but they make Creedmore ammo..

And load a competitors bullets in some of their ammo. My Tikka 260 likes the Berger 136gr Scenar ammo...

 

[antelopedundee]

I know the reason. I also know that it doesn’t work. The case still moves forward. It just seats the bullet a little deeper in the neck. The reason that you have fireformed so many 6.5-06AI cases successfully is because seating the bullets for hard jam is totally unnecessary to prevent the case from moving forward. The neck shoulder junction provides the resistance. That’s not the case when the chamber has .005”+ excess headspace.

Since 6.5-06AI reamers aren't necessarily cut to any SAAMI specs, your scenario presupposes that the starting case will fit properly in a 6.-06AI chamber. If starting with a .25-06 case [which would require the least amount of prep work] on would best try the fit before doing anything. If it chambers with some amount of effort it's probably going to be a good fit. If it chambers with NO more effort than closing on an empty chamber it's probably a good bet that there is some amount of extra headspace. If you take a dummy cartridge with the bullet seated out it takes a lot of effort to seat the bullet just by closing the bolt. I have my doubts about whether or not a 24# firing pin spring would be any more effective at seating the bullet unless the neck tension was nearly nil.

Also in his Handbook For Shooters And Reloaders, P. O. Ackley in discussing the .25-06 Improved advises to use full loads when fire forming cases since using reduced loads will result in short cases which could be dangerous when reloaded and fired a second time. For my money I'll seat to touch or lightly jam if/when I have the need for more cases. YMMV

 

[ImBillT]

Since 6.5-06AI reamers aren't necessarily cut to any SAAMI specs, your scenario presupposes that the starting case will fit properly in a 6.-06AI chamber. If starting with a .25-06 case [which would require the least amount of prep work] on would best try the fit before doing anything. If it chambers with some amount of effort it's probably going to be a good fit. If it chambers with NO more effort than closing on an empty chamber it's probably a good bet that there is some amount of extra headspace. If you take a dummy cartridge with the bullet seated out it takes a lot of effort to seat the bullet just by closing the bolt. I have my doubts about whether or not a 24# firing pin spring would be any more effective at seating the bullet unless the neck tension was nearly nil.

Also in his Handbook For Shooters And Reloaders, P. O. Ackley in discussing the .25-06 Improved advises to use full loads when fire forming cases since using reduced loads will result in short cases which could be dangerous when reloaded and fired a second time. For my money I'll seat to touch or lightly jam if/when I have the need for more cases. YMMV

Other than the .280AI, which has been standardized, all AI’s are wildcats, so yes, there is the possibility that they can measure just about anything, however, when they’re improving a standardized cartridge according Ackley’s usual method, the base to neck/shoulder dimension will be somewhere between identical to that of the parent, and .005” short. Part of the method to POs madness was the ability to fire factory ammunition in the chamber if need be. Because the 6.5-06 was not standardized by A-Square until 1997, a 6.5-06AI sort of fails that test if your rifle was made prior to that time. Nonetheless, the .25-06, .270Win, and 30-06 all have an identical base to shoulder measurement and identical shoulder angle, which means that any of the three could be easily used as the basis for a 6.5-06AI. Further, the 280Rem has a shoulder position FOWARD of the other three, meaning that one would simply size down in a 6.5-06 or 6.5-06AI die(although the AI die might crumple the shoulder) prior to fireforming. In none of these scenarios do you actually move the neck/shoulder junction forward when firing. In all scenarios your headspace is safe. The scenario of firing a 6.5-284Norma case in a custom chamber setup with .284Win headspace involves .005” slop in the chamber. That is within the realm of a field gauge, but not a no-go gauge, and again, if the 6.5-284Win wildcat was chambered to close with zero resistance on a go gauge, there is the possibility that you’re looking at more than .005” excess headspace.

 

[mtmuley]

Is the 6.5 Creedmoor a good elk gun? mtmuley

 

[antelopedundee]

Is the 6.5 Creedmoor a good elk gun? mtmuley

Is this supposed to be rhetorical? I'd say no. The bullet is what does the killing. So a .264 Nosler 130 grain accubond doesn't particularly care which barrel, stock, trigger, case, powder, primer and so on and so forth got it to leave a barrel at 2750 fps. The 6.5 Creedmoor isn't a gun, it's a cartridge. Can it kill elk? Sure. Just because something happens to kill a critter doesn't necessarily make it good medicine for that critter. A .300 Weatherby magnum could be considered as good elk medicine because it will likely do the job under a wider array of conditions [some favorable and some not so favorable] than a 6.5 Creed would/will. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[mtmuley]

Never mind. mtmuley

 

[ImBillT]

Is this supposed to be rhetorical? I'd say no. The bullet is what does the killing. So a .264 Nosler 130 grain accubond doesn't particularly care which barrel, stock, trigger, case, powder, primer and so on and so forth got it to leave a barrel at 2750 fps. The 6.5 Creedmoor isn't a gun, it's a cartridge. Can it kill elk? Sure. Just because something happens to kill a critter doesn't necessarily make it good medicine for that critter. A .300 Weatherby magnum could be considered as good elk medicine because it will likely do the job under a wider array of conditions [some favorable and some not so favorable] than a 6.5 Creed would/will. Just my 2 cents worth.

Yeah, but a CM won’t push a 130gr bullet at 3300fps. A 6.5-06AI with a 30” barrel will. Not actually disagreeing with anything in your post. Just saying that a CM might shoot the same bullet, but it sure ain’t the same cartridge.

 

[antelopedundee]

Yeah, but a CM won’t push a 130gr bullet at 3300fps. A 6.5-06AI with a 30” barrel will. Not actually disagreeing with anything in your post. Just saying that a CM might shoot the same bullet, but it sure ain’t the same cartridge.

Most any 6.5mm cartridge suitable for elk will likely push a 130 grain bullet faster than a Manbun will. But the poster specified a Manbun.

 

[Don Fischer]

If I was to get a new 6.5 today it would either be a 6.5 CM or a 260 Rem. I already have a 6.5x06 and 6.5x57. Hd the 6.5x06 built a good number of years ago and there was a reason for the 30-06 case over the 284 case. I can get 30-06 case's anywhere! I haven't seen a box of 284 ammo or even mty case's in a heck of a lot of years Then again I don't look for it either, just glance now and then to see what's to see. I think the 6.5x284, to get the best of it, require's a long action and then a bit more maybe. Need the longer magazine well to seat out bullet's. That was a huge flaw with the 6.5 Rem Mag, magazine to short and all you could get for it was 120gr bullet's, or so I'd been told. To get the best out of it I strongly suspect's you reload also. Just not a lot of commercial ammo out there for it and not much in the way a case's to reload! 6.5x06 had nothing out there for ammo either but lot's of case's to reload with and lot's of bullet's. Another fact I don't hear about a lot is with the 30-06 case and I'm sure the 284 case, the 6.5x55 will give either a run for the money in a strong modern action! A flaw with all the 6.5's in this country is hard to find bullet's much over 140gr for hunting with. Only one I knoe of making a heavier bullet is Hornady and I've never see a box in store's. Then if you wand a bullet that heavy why not go to the 7mm, bullet's up to 175gr last I'd heard!

As for that 6yr old and reloading, work on it. I started my son out about 3yrs old sitting on my lap. He got to work handles and I simply slowed every thing down

 

[Blueranger]

Wow, thanks for all the input. As much as I would love to buy a 6.5x284, I simply don't have time to reload, safely, and by myself right now. My 7 yo is in my side pocket all the time and wants to help with everything. I already had some case-head separation on a few 280s S. Results of his help and my not paying close enough attention. Maybe in a few years I can get my son to focus a little better and I can revisit this cartridge. Thanks again everybody.