6.5 Creemoor 120 Hornady GMX load on Elk?

[TheDudeAbides]

To the OP, Barnes is a softer compound, copper bullets performance are not comparable to other manufacturers. Barnes TTSX at 1865ish FPS. Found under the skin in the off shoulder, elk went 30 yards. With that said shot placement is what killed it. It took off the top of the heart.
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That is pretty.

However, I would be careful going below the minimum velocity that Barnes recommends ~1800 FPS.

If your impact is too slow, then you run the risk of the bullet not expanding, which can be a fatal shot and can have the animal running quite a ways before dying.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

I don’t disagree that velocity matters with monos and that you don’t want to push the envelope on range and velocity, but in my experience a mono bullet moving above 2900 is more than enough velocity. I’ve never used the GMX or a 6.5 myself, but I’ve killed several elk with Barnes TTSX that impacted at 2400 or even less. Never had an expansion problem. I watched a friend kill an elk at around 300 yards with the exact same 120 grain 6.5 GMX, and again, we saw good expansion and a quick kill.

The thing is you have to go off of what the manufacturer recommends for consistent results.

 

[Deleted member 40315]

Found this article and thought it gave some sound advise in our little chat/debate. Enjoy! https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2016/9/2/do-you-really-need-a-magnum-cartridge/

 

[VikingsGuy]

Are you talking about elk or deer; which “animals” are your referring too? I thought this post was about elk application only...You just referr to “animals” in your response....

I was referring to "big game" animals generally .

What studies are you talking about? Please explain and cite these studies. I’m curious. I’d like to know about these studies and any empirical data that may exist.

A while back I read some studies done by British military - was paper, not internet link. Not a "study" but I also add long discussions with several guides in the US and Africa and their experience getting too many clients who can't handle the guns they bring to the hunt.

A flinch can be fixed with proper shooting technique and practice.

Yup, but better not to get one in the first place.

From your point Everyone should just buy a short action

Nope, my remarks would also include the great long action options like 30-06, .270Win, 280Rem, 280AI, etc. You also ignore my opening sentence that acknowledges that magnums are a good choice for some.

and only hunt under 350yards.

Simply not what I said. I put the 350y I limitation on the specific comment about wounded animals ratio between hunter types. But since you raise it, I am skeptical about shots over 400y, not because it is inherently wrong, but because too few hunters are that good shooting away from the bench and reading wind in a non-range setting. But in the right hands much further shots it can be a reasonable choice.

Sounds like your referring to hunters that don’t practice shooting with their tool (their rifle) and know their bullet design and application processes. Please explain further.

Yup, in most (not all cases), folks posting and taking advice from a "is a 6.5 enough for an elk?" thread are not seasoned hunters so I tailor my comments accordingly.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The thing is you have to go off of what the manufacturer recommends for consistent results.

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Any idea what the delta in expansion is between say the etip 2900 and 2600?

When I look at it I see the "mushroom" is pushed back further on the 2900... but the actually width of expansion, ie wound channel is negligibly different between 2600 and 3200.

I wonder if expansion at 2000fps is like 90% of total potential expansion.

 

[Deleted member 40315]

I was referring to "big game" animals generally .



A while back I read some studies done by British military - was paper, not internet link. Not a "study" but I also add long discussions with several guides in the US and Africa and their experience getting too many clients who can't handle the guns they bring to the hunt.




Yup, but better not to get one in the first place.



Nope, my remarks would also include the great long action options like 30-06, .270Win, 280Rem, 280AI, etc. You also ignore my opening sentence that acknowledges that magnums are a good choice for some.



Simply not what I said. I put the 350y I limitation on the specific comment about wounded animals ratio between hunter types. But since you raise it, I am skeptical about shots over 400y, not because it is inherently wrong, but because too few hunters are that good shooting away from the bench and reading wind in a non-range setting. But in the right hands much further shots it can be a reasonable choice.



Yup, in most (not all cases), folks posting and taking advice from a "is a 6.5 enough for an elk?" thread are not seasoned hunters so I tailor my comments accordingly.

I can accept your thoughts Great reply! Well noted.

 

[EastTNHunter]

I agree that there is not much difference between a .270 130gr and a .264 120gr, but my experience is that monos don’t provide quite as much shock or”bang flop” result as a heavier, faster expanding lead bullet (I greatly prefer NABs). I also feel that for bull elk you may need to limit yourself to more of a “perfect shot” and under 300yd with either of these, and pass on the quartering shots that may need a little more horsepower to penetrate and deliver the goods to the boiler room. Double the above if shoulder is encountered.

If I was hunting with my .270 for bull elk (wouldn’t hesitate) then I would likely use a little heavier bullet (140 NAB or TSX/TTSX or 150 something or another) and still limit shots to under 300yd and close to perfectly broadside.

I understand that cow elk are a little smaller than bull elk and easier to get good penetration on, so my daughter will likely be hunting them in ‘21 with a 270 Win and 130 NABs, but I will also limit her shots to 200ish yard and mostly broadside.

All of this and a buck fifty will buy you a coke at the gas station, though

 

[Flyfish4ever]

This year I hunted deer with the GMX and after my first deer, I went out with a metal detector to find the bullet. I found that it did not expand fully, but the deer was still dead on the spot.
I worked up a load using Barnes TTSX and my second deer had far better results with expansion.
I wouldn’t hesitate for either bullet, but if I were to grab one, I’d grab the TTSX. I’d run some expansion tests with your load to see how it expands at various ranges.

 

[Brian in Montana]

I have not shot an elk with them, but I always find myself drawn to the design of the Federal Trophy Bonded Tip when considering these things. Seems to be a good compromise option between the expansion of a lead core and the penetration of a mono. I've shot a bear and a mulie buck with them out of my .308 and was really happy with the performance.

I can't get the 130s to group in my .270 however.

 

[MTLabrador]

I have not shot an elk with them, but I always find myself drawn to the design of the Federal Trophy Bonded Tip when considering these things. Seems to be a good compromise option between the expansion of a lead core and the penetration of a mono. I've shot a bear and a mulie buck with them out of my .308 and was really happy with the performance.

I can't get the 130s to group in my .270 however.

I used the factory .270 130s for a few years and a few elk and I agree, they are a great bullet. I’ve since moved to 140 Accubonds, but I liked the TBT a lot.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Any idea what the delta in expansion is between say the etip 2900 and 2600?

When I look at it I see the "mushroom" is pushed back further on the 2900... but the actually width of expansion, ie wound channel is negligibly different between 2600 and 3200.

I wonder if expansion at 2000fps is like 90% of total potential expansion.

My dude. I love the use of 'Delta' It's been a while since I heard someone describe change like that.

Unfortunately, I do not know the delta.

 

[handwerk]

I talked to barnes recently about the LRX bullets, not only do they have a better BC than the TTSX's but they are designed to open up at lower FPS, when I asked about the 6.5/127 I was told minimum for proper expansion was 1500 FPS.
For years I've been loading the TTSX's for 8 different cartridges, for several of them ( 280AI, .270 win, .243 win. 6.5CM) I've switched over to LRX's.

 

[Caseknife]

I killed this Wyoming bull in 2016 with one shot from the Howa Alpine 6.5 CM that I won courtesy of Randy and Howa. I didn't have time to work up loads with Barnes TTSX which I hunt with exclusively, so I used the Hornady 120GMX. One shot at 140 yds quartering away, the bullet went through over 2 feet of elk and broke the off side shoulder. As my brother in law said right after that shot, "that's a dead bull", he turned downhill and went out of sight and piled up within feet. I have recovered numerous Barnes and also this GMX, usually just under the off side hide and you couldn't really tell the difference between the bullets other than the Barnes have an "X" on the base. I wouldn't have an issue with using the rifle and load with your normal distances you shoot. Hope that helps.

 

[Doublegunner]

I talked to barnes recently about the LRX bullets, not only do they have a better BC than the TTSX's but they are designed to open up at lower FPS, when I asked about the 6.5/127 I was told minimum for proper expansion was 1500 FPS.
For years I've been loading the TTSX's for 8 different cartridges, for several of them ( 280AI, .270 win, .243 win. 6.5CM) I've switched over to LRX's.

How has the accuracy been? On target performance?

 

[Doublegunner]

I killed this Wyoming bull in 2016 with one shot from the Howa Alpine 6.5 CM that I won courtesy of Randy and Howa. I didn't have time to work up loads with Barnes TTSX which I hunt with exclusively, so I used the Hornady 120GMX. One shot at 140 yds quartering away, the bullet went through over 2 feet of elk and broke the off side shoulder. As my brother in law said right after that shot, "that's a dead bull", he turned downhill and went out of sight and piled up within feet. I have recovered numerous Barnes and also this GMX, usually just under the off side hide and you couldn't really tell the difference between the bullets other than the Barnes have an "X" on the base. I wouldn't have an issue with using the rifle and load with your normal distances you shoot. Hope that helps.

Very helpful. Thanks.

 

[Nambaster]

Hey Op,

Sorry I can’t specifically add input regarding the 120 grain GMX, but I thought that I would chime in and say that the last 2 bull elk that I harvested were both with 6.5,s. My 2018 bull was harvested at 250 yards with a sporterized M96 Husqauvarna 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. I was using 140 grain Sierra game kings and 2 rounds sent him tumbling down the mountain.

In 2019, I was gifted a Ducks Unlimited Howa with HS precision stock and ceracoated barrel and Nikko Sterling scope in 6.5 Creedmore. One trip out to the range and I knew I had to try that thing on elk. Federal was selling 140 grain loads tipped with accubonds priced way below the Noslers so I bought 3 boxes of those. During the elk hunt I had a rutting bull screaming and thrashing a tree at 457ish (I cant remember the exact distance) yards. On the first shot his front legs buckled and he was leaning against the tree he was thrashing. I put another one in him and he rolled down the mountain.

Other posters have mentioned that accuracy is what is most important. My 6.5’s are like my refined scalpel blades. They are way sharper than the heavier buck knives but in order to hold their edge you have to avoid the bones. They can’t be used for prying or hit with a stick as a wedge to split wood, but they can slice and dice to make short light work skinning and quartering an elk. When I aim with my 6.5’s I am confident the bullets will go right where they count thats what has me using them instead of my 30 caliber rifles.

 

[handwerk]

Doublegunner, accuracy has been great both my daughter and my 6.5's will group the 127LRX under an inch@100 yards using RL17. Last year we both killed antelope with that bullet and it performed well.

 

[Doublegunner]

Doublegunner, accuracy has been great both my daughter and my 6.5's will group the 127LRX under an inch@100 yards using RL17. Last year we both killed antelope with that bullet and it performed well.

Thanks.

 

[BWALKER77]

I want 2000fps impact velocity or better from any mono including the LRX FWIW.
I have tried Barnes, Nosler and Hornady monos and the Barnes are the easiest to get to shoot. I have never had Etips shoot worth a damn for ME YMMV.

 

[brockel]

Killing critters just isn’t that hard. Put it where it needs to be in the velocity window the bullet will expand in and you will be fine