6.5 Creemoor 120 Hornady GMX load on Elk?

[TheDudeAbides]

With All copper bullets, you need to just make sure you have enough velocity at the point of impact for it to expand.

If the bullet does not expand, then you may mortally wounding animals that get away.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Last year I bought a Kimber Montana in 6.5 Creedmoor. Yes, another Creedmoor thread. I tried a few different hunting loads for accuracy and the Hornady 120 gr GMX Outfitter loads shot the best at about 1/2 inch at 100 yds so that is the load that I set the rifle up with. I used that setup to take my deer last season but didn't use it for elk. I have other more powerful rifles that I generally use for elk. That being said, the Kimber weighs 7 pounds with sling without ammo. My other rifles suitable for elk are around 9 pounds so the weight savings is noticeable. I do a lot of hiking when I elk hunt so saving same weight is not a bad thing. My question is this, has anybody used the 120 grain GMX load on elk? If so, how did it perform? What was the distance? Most of my elk hunting is for Roosevelt elk so they are generally pretty big bodied. Velocity on that load is 2907 FPS out of my rifle. I will be candid and say that I am on the fence on this. Should I be? My Savage .270 is loaded with Barnes 130 gr TTSX bullets going a little over 3000 FPS and I hauled that around the hills looking for elk and didn't think much of it. Is the .270 that much more powerful that it makes a difference? 10 grains and about 100 FPS more. Most threads I have read seem to indicate the .270 is just fine for elk. Thanks for your thoughts.

I wouldn't hesitate, burden of proof being on the naysayer.

 

[Deleted member 40315]

With All copper bullets, you need to just make sure you have enough velocity at the point of impact for it to expand.

If the bullet does not expand, then you may mortally wounding animals that get away.

View attachment 138265

That is exactly why I shoot magnums and know terminal ballistic impact distance for my target. Great point!

 

[MTLabrador]

Elk don’t worry about foot pounds of energy. There is absolutely zero practical difference between a 120 grain .264 bullet at 2900 and a 130 grain .277 bullet at 3000. Don’t worry about it at all.

 

[Brian in Montana]

I wouldn't hesitate, burden of proof being on the naysayer.

I have no burden to prove a thing.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I have no burden to prove a thing.

Fair enough.

 

[Doublegunner]

No I didn’t. I’ve heard great things about Barnes bullets. When I set my rifle up, it ate and love the gmx consistently, so that’s what I stuck with. Accuracy was great too. I could have tried the Barnes and maybe I’ll pick up a box. Honestly thought, I’d be more apt to buy some federal with Nosler partitions and try those. But I like the way u think

Well, that is not exactly how this played out. I didn't know that Federal was loading partitions in the creedmoor. Where can I get those? I would really appreciate a link. I am very fond of the partition bullet. Thanks. In any event I did try the Barnes TTSX 120 grain load. Just not the 127 grain LRX load. Accuracy was just so so with the TTSX. I tried other loads as well but the GMX was the most accurate just in front of the 143 grain ELDX which gave me about 3/4 inch groups. As for choosing the GMX bullet I did a fair bit of research. It is very similar to the Barnes bullet and I have extensive knowledge of the Barnes TTSX in multiple calibers and have taken deer and elk with that bullet so I expected similar performance to the Barnes. Also, Hornady rates the GMX bullet for animals up to 1500 lbs as loaded in the creedmoor. I didn't set this rifle up for elk necessarily but I am not opposed to using it for that purpose under the right conditions and circumstances. Before deciding to use it on elk I was hoping for some anecdotal evidence. Real world experience can be very valuable if it is reliable. This thread was more about who had experience with this load on elk size critters and what their experience had been. thanks

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Elk don’t worry about foot pounds of energy. There is absolutely zero practical difference between a 120 grain .264 bullet at 2900 and a 130 grain .277 bullet at 3000. Don’t worry about it at all.

It depends on the distance and the velocity the projectile is carrying when it hits the animal.

Copper is different than lead in this regard.

You want the bullet to expand well.

A bullet that does not expand well, it of no good to you or the animal.

In the 6.5 using 2900 FPS, 120 gr, .450 BC, 6000ft elevation, 40 degrees temp. You would be looking at around 2400 FPS and 1500 ft/lb of energy at 300 yards, which is a little light.

Considering you want around 1500 ft/lbs of energy, which is a commonly stated minimum velocity for elk.

300 yards would be near your max ethical distance with a copper bullet.

If you look at the picture above the expansion is going to be between the two, which is doable - however anything more may result in an FMJ style of impact.

You may just punch a 6.5 hole through both sides of the lungs, which is a lethal shot - however it may be a while before the animal dies.

With an elk it may run a mile or two and you may never recover it.

I get that any caliber can kill an elk.

However, if you are going to shoot copper (like I do) velocity and energy at distance are key.

 

[MTLabrador]

It depends on the distance and the velocity the projectile is carrying when it hits the animal.

Copper is different than lead in this regard.

You want the bullet to expand well.

A bullet that does not expand well, it of no good to you or the animal.

In the 6.5 using 2900 FPS, 120 gr, .450 BC, 6000ft elevation, 40 degrees temp. You would be looking at around 2400 FPS and 1500 ft/lb of energy at 300 yards, which is a little light.

Considering you want around 1500 ft/lbs of energy, which is a commonly stated minimum velocity for elk.

300 yards would be near your max ethical distance with a copper bullet.

If you look at the picture above the expansion is going to be between the two, which is doable - however anything more may result in an FMJ style of impact.

You may just punch a 6.5 hole through both sides of the lungs, which is a lethal shot - however it may be a while before the animal dies.

With an elk it may run a mile or two and you may never recover it.

I get that any caliber can kill an elk.

However, if you are going to shoot copper (like I do) velocity and energy at distance are key.

I don’t disagree that velocity matters with monos and that you don’t want to push the envelope on range and velocity, but in my experience a mono bullet moving above 2900 is more than enough velocity. I’ve never used the GMX or a 6.5 myself, but I’ve killed several elk with Barnes TTSX that impacted at 2400 or even less. Never had an expansion problem. I watched a friend kill an elk at around 300 yards with the exact same 120 grain 6.5 GMX, and again, we saw good expansion and a quick kill.

 

[3855WIN]

What kind of cover are you hunting in? A lighter rifle will kill them, but if they run a little farther into heavy cover, it might not be the best option.
If you wouldn’t take your heavier rifles on an elk hunt, why have them? Maybe time to sell a few rifles.

 

[shootbrownelk]

What are peoples thoughts on the GMX bullet? This is the only rifle I am running it in. I really don't know that much about it except Hornady rates it for an elk size animal. I haven't seen a lot of threads about it. In contrast to the Barnes, which I am much more familiar with. I wanted a mono bullet and it shot well so went with it.

Did you try the Nosler E-tip? Another mono. They performed similar to the Barnes TTSX for me.

 

[VikingsGuy]

That is exactly why I shoot magnums and know terminal ballistic impact distance for my target. Great point!

Magnums are fun and effective for the right shooter, but not at all needed to take an elk within 400y with a TTSX bullet in the proper weight. My guess is at 350y more animals are "unethically wounded" by missed shots by guys that shouldn't be shooting magnums than by guys who were shooting non-magnums. Studies have shown even good shooter's are effected by recoil, even though folks don't want to acknowledge it.

 

[Addicting]

With All copper bullets, you need to just make sure you have enough velocity at the point of impact for it to expand.

If the bullet does not expand, then you may mortally wounding animals that get away.

View attachment 138265

To the OP, Barnes is a softer compound, copper bullets performance are not comparable to other manufacturers. Barnes TTSX at 1865ish FPS. Found under the skin in the off shoulder, elk went 30 yards. With that said shot placement is what killed it. It took off the top of the heart.

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[Doublegunner]

What kind of cover are you hunting in? A lighter rifle will kill them, but if they run a little farther into heavy cover, it might not be the best option.
If you wouldn’t take your heavier rifles on an elk hunt, why have them? Maybe time to sell a few rifles.

It's mixed cover, some timber some clear-cut or openings. I have never shot an elk past 250 yds but I've shot deer out to 503 yds. I haven't used this rifle for elk and I don't want to get rid of my existing rifles as they also serve a purpose. I am just considering this set up. thanks.

 

[Doublegunner]

Did you try the Nosler E-tip? Another mono. They performed similar to the Barnes TTSX for me.

I haven't. Good suggestion.

 

[Doublegunner]

To the OP, Barnes is a softer compound, copper bullets performance are not comparable to other manufacturers. Barnes TTSX at 1865ish FPS. Found under the skin in the off shoulder, elk went 30 yards. With that said shot placement is what killed it. It took off the top of the heart.
View attachment 138374

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I took a nice 6 point with a 30-06 with a 180 grain ttsx at 250 yds. Double lunged him and he still ran about 50 yds. When I processed him out the lungs were just destroyed. Bullet passed all the way through. I appreciate their toughness for sure. That is why I asked the question.

 

[Doublegunner]

Magnums are fun and effective for the right shooter, but not at all needed to take an elk within 400y with a TTSX bullet in the proper weight. My guess is at 350y more animals are "unethically wounded" by missed shots by guys that shouldn't be shooting magnums than by guys who were shooting non-magnums. Studies have shown even good shooter's are effected by recoil, even though folks don't want to acknowledge it.

I agree with this whole heartedly. Magnums aren't the right choice for everybody and I don't think you have to have one to be a successful hunter. A good friend of mine always shot a 308 and decided he wanted a magnum. I tried to steer him towards a 7mm RM as most can handle the recoil and they are performers. He wanted a 300 WM and bought a lightweight version. I shoot regularly and encouraged him to come with me and practice with his new rifle. He's not really a gun guy but loves to hunt. The gun is the tool so to speak. He took it out a few times but you could tell he hated the recoil and muzzle blast. Fall came around and we went elk hunting and he took that rifle, and, unfortunately, things went really bad for him when he gut shot an elk. It was a mess. He was pretty upset. With his 308 that elk would have been on the ground. When hunting my main concern is humanely taking the animal so it doesn't suffer. I have passed on a lot of shots that I just wasn't comfortable with.

 

[Doublegunner]

Has anyone compared actual field performance of the GMX vs. the Barnes TTSX?

 

[Deleted member 40315]

Magnums are fun and effective for the right shooter, but not at all needed to take an elk within 400y with a TTSX bullet in the proper weight. My guess is at 350y more animals are "unethically wounded" by missed shots by guys that shouldn't be shooting magnums than by guys who were shooting non-magnums. Studies have shown even good shooter's are effected by recoil, even though folks don't want to acknowledge it.

Are you talking about elk or deer; which “animals” are your referring too? I thought this post was about elk application only...You just referr to “animals” in your response....

What studies are you talking about? Please explain and cite these studies. I’m curious. I’d like to know about these studies and any empirical data that may exist.
A flinch can be fixed with proper shooting technique and practice. From your point Everyone should just buy a short action and only hunt under 350yards. Sounds like your referring to hunters that don’t practice shooting with their tool (their rifle) and know their bullet design and application processes. Please explain further. These ttsx bullets must have elk or deer falling in their tracks before the hunter fires the rifle.
-thanks

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Has anyone compared actual field performance of the GMX vs. the Barnes TTSX?

I have shot a dirt pile and recovered the bullets. Does that count?

Both were close to at the range of 100 yards.

The Barnes was better at creating a bigger surface area in the expansion and the gmx was better at got better penetration into the dirt pile, but didn't open up as much.

Both opened up well enough to kill any critter.