4 year olds with guns

CC and Topgun,

Topgun, I do care about youth being involved...and what I care about more is that a young hunters earliest hunting experiences are going to decide whether they continue to hunt in the future.

Do you think one of my best friends still hunts when he his Dad made him walk 1.5 miles in 8 inches of snow in socking feet, because he was making too much noise? Oh, and it was in the Bighole...nice warm place to be tramping around in your socks.

Try to think about that for a second, then re-read my last post.

How many of the kids I grew up with, that were forced to hunt because their folks wanted to kill another animal for them...do you think still hunt today?

I dont know ONE.

By allowing the dipwad parents to buy them tags at an earlier age is only going to make that situation worse. At 12, most kids could potentially at least pack a rifle of their own, and most could fire that rifle and maybe get to shoot before Dad "helps" them.

An 8 year old kid? a 6 year old kid? Unless it is a very, very, very controlled situation...Dear old Dad is going to be doing most of the killing, its just a simple fact. Even more so in the more remote places in Montana.

I just dont think most kids are mentally or physically ready to hunt big-game any younger than 10-12.
 
My hunting partner's wife is due in August. Do any of you guys know if we can put him/her in for moose sheep and goat or will we have to wait til next year?
 
I think that Buzz's reply makes some sense, but I would like to tell my situation.

Last year (two seasons ago) I shot a bull with my daughter. She was 18 months old. The year before I almost shot a cow with her (so close). She's out with me all the time. I hope she enjoys it.

I heard about ID's mentor program a few weeks ago and started wondering, how young is too young? I finally decided that the decision is not up to me to make, the state has done it for me. This legislation lets me decide, based on my child's desires and abilities. If my children WANT to hunt I would gladly give up being the shooter myself so that I can focus on packing meat. My house can only eat one elk a year and I would be happier watching my child have the trill of bagging an elk over doing it myself.
 
I'd probably be more talked in to it if it was letting the kid fill the mentor's tag.
 
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You're "copping out" on the real issue BuzzH. It's not about what animal they shoot or are allowed to shoot like the cow issue you guys don't like. IMHO, what you have stated won't change one friggin bit if the kid or kids have a "dipwad' for a parent whether they are 6, 8, or 12. Your thinking is again penalizing the majority for what hopefully is a small minority of jackasses throughout the populace and this type of program does put very good control over the situation if it is followed properly. To be very honest, the only problem I have with the real small kids shooting big game animals is that a lot of them are so small the parents have them shooting calibers with little recoil that are really more varmint guns and not the best for what they are using them for, but that's a whole different discussion. The good thing about this program is that it gives the parent the ability to judge/decide when their kid is ready. Thus, if you don't want your kid to hunt until 12 it's well within your right to follow your feelings and not let them start until then, but it's up to you and not the state to say you don't have that choice.

Randy11---That again sounds like it is copping out and thinking negative things that might happen with the minority of people who are going to cheat, rather than the majority who would follow the program properly.
 
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Topgun,

You want to talk about a "copout"...saying that youth hunters will lose interest unless parents can buy them their own tag and have them kill an elk at 4 years old?

THAT is a "copout".

Nobody is saying that you cant take kids out with you in the field before they're old enough to have a hunting license, me included. In fact, thats what I would encourage everyone to do.

I tagged along with my Dad from the time I was 2-3 years old...but didnt hunt until I was 12.

Its a good regulation, period.

Also, I dont agree with you at all on this:

but it's up to you and not the state to say you don't have that choice.

No, its currently not up to a parent, it is up to the state as they set a regulation that you have to be 12 to purchase a hunting license to hunt big-game. No different than a regulation on bag limits, caliber restrictions, season length, etc. etc. etc.

There are certain things that cant be left open for people to use their best judgement on...take a drive to Seeley Lake someday...as a good friend of mine said, "its a retirement town for Carneys"...
 
I like Randy11's idea of letting the kid fill his mentor tag while out hunting together. To me, that seems to be a good compromise. It allows youth the chance to harvest an animal at an early age, yet doesn't make it extra appealing to poaching/poachers.

Personally, I'd be happy if they opened up turkeys for "said" age and up, prior to them being able to hunt at age 12.
 
BuzzH said:
CC and Topgun,

Topgun, I do care about youth being involved...and what I care about more is that a young hunters earliest hunting experiences are going to decide whether they continue to hunt in the future.

Do you think one of my best friends still hunts when he his Dad made him walk 1.5 miles in 8 inches of snow in socking feet, because he was making too much noise? Oh, and it was in the Bighole...nice warm place to be tramping around in your socks.

Try to think about that for a second, then re-read my last post.

How many of the kids I grew up with, that were forced to hunt because their folks wanted to kill another animal for them...do you think still hunt today?

I dont know ONE.

By allowing the dipwad parents to buy them tags at an earlier age is only going to make that situation worse. At 12, most kids could potentially at least pack a rifle of their own, and most could fire that rifle and maybe get to shoot before Dad "helps" them.

An 8 year old kid? a 6 year old kid? Unless it is a very, very, very controlled situation...Dear old Dad is going to be doing most of the killing, its just a simple fact. Even more so in the more remote places in Montana.

I just dont think most kids are mentally or physically ready to hunt big-game any younger than 10-12.
Click to expand...

I love it when somebody tries to tell me whats best for my family and myself. You may want to consider the possibility that you are surrounded by idiots. You certainly don't paint your friends and neighbors in a very good light.
 
cur dog,

When it comes to wildlife resources, its not up to your individual wishes...wildlife and the management of same is decided by the people/legislature of the State. If the citizens dont want to make it legal for 4 year olds to purchase big-game licenses, thats what the state will enact. It doesnt matter what you think is "best" for your family...period. If you dont like it...too bad.

What I always like is when people put the blinders on and dont see the potential problems associated with 4, 5, 6 year old kids being able to purchase big-game licenses.

Nope, not surrounded by idiots, just not blind to what goes on around me either. Must be nice to go through life in an oblivious state...never have been able to master that one.

I grew up with some of the best hunters and fishermen in the state of Montana...fine woodsmen, all of them, to the man. The product of living, working, and recreating in the outdoors.

I'm with Randy11, if a kid under 12 wants to hunt, let them fill their "mentors" tag...
 
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I believe it is a good step for parental rights to actually trump gov't 'knows best' for my children.
I do not like the... "mentor" over 18 aspect though. It should be IN THE COMPANY AT ALL TIMES with a parent or legal guardian.

Other then that - a breath of fresh air to the parenting factor.

edit added: loss of hunting/fishing and seizure of hunting firearms for the parent/legal guardian and a good fine to boot if found in violation.
 
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Do you guys that are for this bill also think that there shouldn't be an age on voting? Drinking? Driving? Gambling? Buying smokes? Purchasing a firearm?

Not trying to stir the pot, just curious if they're different for you guys of not.
 
age limits....driving...voting...sex...drinking...buying guns...and now hunting! Damn govmnt always infringing on the rights of the kids
 
Gotta still disagree with the small thinking here. You guys keep talking about 4,5,6 year olds here. What about the 8-12 crowd? Any kid who has had proper youthful experience with firearms their whole life is more than able to make the play on big game just fine. Might as well go for that old age limit, heck let's go for keeping overweight people out of the back country, everybody knows they re a liability, might want to consider not selling more than one family member per season a big game tag.
Buzz, I have actually spent a good bit of time at Seeley Lake these past few years and didn't find the locals so backwards as you portray. Pretty good bunch that I was running into. Point is we can find dipsticks anywhere and sadly we will. But why should their bad actions have anything to do with what age they can start hunting big game. I gotta think there is no science behind that sort of legal restriction.
 
I can hear the story now:

"I was hunting with my mentor (Dad), with the deer tag I just bought. I just fished a PBR from the cooler for Dad and I. Just as I was rounding the corner, after I drove 55 miles to the hunting spot, I looked up and saw a deer. Dad jumped out of the passenger side and filled my youth tag for me. We walked up to the dead deer, where I put my tag on it. I pulled out my pack of Camels and lit up a smoke to settle my nerves. Since it was November 11th, we were back in time for me to vote.

My Dad is the best mentor, thank goodness the State of Montana didnt tell us what to do."

Signed,

Little Johnie
Seeley Lake, MT
Age 9
 
twodot,

You're right, they arent ALL six fingered banjo pickers...I've spent more than a bit of time there...you're going to have a hard time convincing me there arent a bunch of bassackward folk there.

Heres the typical Seeley Lake mentality...found this on my truck when I hiked back into pack out the rest of a 320 six point I killed the day before. In country that I've hunted every year since 1979. I'm sure the retired carny that wrote that was a Seeley Lake local. I was actually impressed the words were all spelled correctly.

IMG_3306.JPG
 
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I think youth hunting age depends on the youth himself. I know kids that I would not want to be in the same section with at age 17 and others I would at 8 years old. I like the mentor program started in WI. A kid can hunt before the legal age of 12 if he is within arms reach of an adult and there is only one gun in the pair.
My kid is one I trust at a younger age, he took hunter safety when he was 8 and the instructor was impressed that he aced the field test and only got one wrong on the written. (Pitmann Rob question)
I think make the hunter safety test tough with a thorough field test, and if the kid passes, the kid passes.
 
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