30-06 vs 300 WM in the real world?

[Doublegunner]

06 unless you need to go really far then 300. Both are good and readily available. I prefer the 06 as i find it a little more pleasant to shoot. If you go 300 get a rifle with a little more weight so you won't feel the need for a brake. Either will work just fine.

 

[2rocky]

but my magnum goes to 11....

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Why? mtmuley

A whole bunch of reasons why a magnum target rifle doesn't make much sense compared to milder options like 6 BR, Creedmoor, 308.

1. Less Recoil
   1. if shooting at targets, why get hammered on? Everyone shoots lighter recoiling rifles better than heavy recoiling rifles even if they "aren't bothered by recoil". Some are drastically different
   2. allows people to develop better trigger control and consistent recoil management, avoid flinching
   3. allows to watch vapor trail and spot misses/impacts
      1. I've found this to make a huge difference in progression shooting longer ranges
2. More inherently accurate cartridges than the long magnums
   1. There's a reason bench rest, even at 1k yards, is dominated by modest cartridges. Primarily 6BR variants only burning 29-33 grains of powder. 6.5x47, 284 win, 7 SAUM, 300 WSM become more competitive only because of reduced wind deflection.
   2. Constantly evolving accuracy "tune" with bigger magnums that have faster throat erosion and lose velocity sooner
3. Cheaper
   1. Burn less powder, shoot cheaper bullets, with cheaper brass with a long shelf life
   2. Barrel life

In reality people buying more horsepower for "long range" would be better suited spending a bunch of time burning out barrels on a 223, 6br, 308, etc learning ballistics, wind reading, and recoil management. PRS limits competitors to 30 cal bullets with a max speed of 3200 FPS yet it is being dominated by folks who shoot 6mm at 2800-2950 FPS. It's because of recoil and that is in rifles with brakes that weigh 24 lbs.

 

[mtmuley]

The .30-06 isn't a magnum. mtmuley

 

[Wind Gypsy]

being the 50 cal. was in his day (and still is today), the flattest shooting, most effective long range cartridge.

It might have been in his day but it sure isn't anymore.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

The .30-06 isn't a magnum. mtmuley

Correct. The context I read this in is below.

Long range shooting which I would not do at game but targets, yeah, a 300WM might make sense.

For targets over 400y you are much better off with .308Win, 6mmBR family (up to 650 or so), 6.5 creedmoor, 6.5-284, or .284Win.

Why? mtmuley

 

[JohnCushman]

@mtmuley If it ain't a RUM it ain't $hit

 

[mtmuley]

@mtmuley If it ain't a RUM it ain't $hit

Funny. The op wants a hunting rifle, and we somehow get to target shooting matches and which cartridge is suitable. Cush, the RUM will make you develope a flinch man. mtmuley

 

[VikingsGuy]

Funny. The op wants a hunting rifle, and we somehow get to target shooting matches and which cartridge is suitable.

I was responding to RaiderRich not OP; just as I am responding to you now -- it happens on threads

 

[mtmuley]

I was responding to RaiderRich not OP; just as I am responding to you now -- it happens on threads

Yes it does. I get it VG. mtmuley

 

[Brian in Montana]

I was a true 7RM fan for several years until I got my 270. I learned the 270 could provide the same exact terminal performance, all but the same bullet trajectory with less recoil/muzzle blast while on a much better platform for an open country rifle. I sold my last 7RM in February.

If I feel I need more than a 270 with a 130 grain bullet, I step up to a 30-06 with a heavy rock. If I feel I need more than a 30-06, the step up will be significantly more than a 300 mag.

I've said it before, but not on this thread. I find that between my .308 and .270 I have pretty much every thing covered as far as hunting situations go. I own and have used other rifles in other chamberings, but those are the ones I always go back to and tend to be the standards by which others are measured.

But the OP is about the -06 vs .300WM. I've used both, more the .300WM, and I don't see a real world difference within the distances I generally shoot. Between the 2 I'd take the .308... I mean 30-06. . But really, I did haul a 300WM around for a number of years and shot a lot of deer and elk with it, but I honestly never really liked it. Too heavy, too loud, kicks too much, not enjoyable to shoot, eventually went back to the my roots and haven't regretted it.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I’d have to double check, but off the top of my head maybe the .408 Chey Tec or .416
Barret can do as well? I’m no expert and have limited knowledge.

There’s a handful of purpose built extreme long range chamberings out there in 375, 408, etc now.

 

[RevJim]

If one gets to hunt on some Private Ranches, whether Exotics or Elk, etc, the "owner or even the guide" may have a preference. Many like to tell their clients to "bring a Big gun". Goes w/o saying they shoot be able to shoot it if they bring it. Right? Not so. Reason is the vast, vast majority of people cannot shoot as well as they like to think they do. It's the American Way, ha. Even then, a shot at game over 300yds is a long way in rough country. If it runs at all ( most do) can you get to that exact spot it was standing when you shot? Even with snow, are you on the exact game trail he/she was on, etc? The LRH TV shows don't show you how many gut shot, broke leg, jaws shot off animals ran off or that they have a small army of guys spotting, etc. I go very often to the desert and me and my Marine SIL shoot rocks out to 1K, even with irons on M1 Garands, M1As, etc. We also dial in with the 300 RUM I had built for him with his Huskemaw scope. But thats sniping, to me. But we don't climb up on the ridges to haul any down, ha.

 

[44hunter45]

If you have the skills to take game at 400+ yards with 100% consistency then who am I to say that you shouldn't do it. We send young men into war with enough training to effectively engage enemy combatants at long range; yet when we come to hunting, someone with the same skill is chastised for their "unethical" behavior. I don't have those skills, so I get closer.

The difference being it is just as effective to wound an enemy combatant and take him (and the teammates who have to take care of him) out of the fight. We want to kill game animals cleanly, not just take them out of them fight.

Regardless as to how you hunt or how far you take a shot, bring enough gun to do what you want to do. For me the .30-06 will take care of anything at the distances I'm comfortable with taking shots at. If I was hunting heavier game where it would be nice to have the extra energy or perhaps the chance for a shot would mean it may be a longer distance, I would move into something else. Then I would practice as much as possible at as many distances as I could to build confidence and data for what those distances require to make consistent hits.

Having said that, +1 on everything you said.

 

[44hunter45]

1. There's a reason bench rest, even at 1k yards, is dominated by modest cartridges. Primarily 6BR variants only burning 29-33 grains of powder. 6.5x47, 284 win, 7 SAUM, 300 WSM become more competitive only because of reduced wind deflection.

In reality people buying more horsepower for "long range" would be better suited spending a bunch of time burning out barrels on a 223, 6br, 308, etc learning ballistics, wind reading, and recoil management. PRS limits competitors to 30 cal bullets with a max speed of 3200 FPS yet it is being dominated by folks who shoot 6mm at 2800-2950 FPS. It's because of recoil and that is in rifles with brakes that weigh 24 lbs.

I have yet to see a bench rest target run into a hell hole and die after a bad or under-gunned hit. I have seen a mule deer take every round a 6mm Rem shooter had and then get dumped by one .30-06 round. The 6mm Rem shooter was a killer off the bench, but did not practice field practical shooting.

I agree with your logic, and have my Granddaughter sending 500:1 more 22lr downrange out of the 77/22 than her 6.5x55. This teaches her the skills. The skills transfer to more powerful rifles.

Why can't someone build skills on a "modest" cartridge, and then carry enough gun in the woods?

Oh and +1 .30-'06. - Any Creedmoor shooter will tell you that with "superior modern powders" you can get more with less. RL-26 seriously thinned the 30-06 to 300WM line for me.

Question - Why do 300WM supporters tout the rifle as superior over distance and use 150 grain, low BC numbers to prove it? Any distance advantage with the 300WM would be with heavy bullets, not light. This applies to the .308Win to .30-06 debate as well.

 

[JLS]

I agree with your logic, and have my Granddaughter sending 500:1 more 22lr downrange out of the 77/22 than her 6.5x55. This teaches her the skills. The skills transfer to more powerful rifles.

Truth.

 

[noharleyyet]

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I have yet to see a bench rest target run into a hell hole and die after a bad or under-gunned hit. I have seen a mule deer take every round a 6mm Rem shooter had and then get dumped by one .30-06 round. The 6mm Rem shooter was a killer off the bench, but did not practice field practical shooting.

My post was in regards to someone who said they might see logic in a 300 WM for long range target shooting but ‘06 was sufficient for hunting - my point was that there are modest cartridges that are more ideal for punching paper and ringing steel and if anything, I’d lean towards more power for hunting and less for the range. There isn’t a mule deer alive that can take one good shot with a suitable 6mm bullet and make it far. Sure, maybe a big 30 in the guts will slow it down more than a 6 in the guts. There’s too many variables to get into but I bet a 243 with a 103 eldX in the guts would put at least as big a hurt on something as a 180 Barnes ttsx through the guts.

I agree with your logic, and have my Granddaughter sending 500:1 more 22lr downrange out of the 77/22 than her 6.5x55. This teaches her the skills. The skills transfer to more powerful rifles.

Why can't someone build skills on a "modest" cartridge, and then carry enough gun in the woods?

Oh and +1 .30-'06. - Any Creedmoor shooter will tell you that with "superior modern powders" you can get more with less. RL-26 seriously thinned the 30-06 to 300WM line for me.

Question - Why do 300WM supporters tout the rifle as superior over distance and use 150 grain, low BC numbers to prove it? Any distance advantage with the 300WM would be with heavy bullets, not light. This applies to the .308Win to .30-06 debate as well.

In general, the “but reloader 17/26/33 or VV570 makes my xxx have ballistics of a xxx magnum” arguments are ridiculous. The bigger cases benefit from the high energy powders just as much.

Per the OP, I think 30/06 makes more sense as an all around hunting rifle (including elk, moose, griz) for most people than a WM. I’ve yet to witness a decent shot on a big game animal from any centerfire rifle end poorly though so I don’t have the belief you need a bunch of power.

 

[44hunter45]

My post was in regards to someone who said they might see logic in a 300 WM for long range target shooting but ‘06 was sufficient for hunting - my point was that there are modest cartridges that are more ideal for punching paper and ringing steel and if anything, I’d lean towards more power for hunting and less for the range. There isn’t a mule deer alive that can take one good shot with a suitable 6mm bullet and make it far. Sure, maybe a big 30 in the guts will slow it down more than a 6 in the guts. There’s too many variables to get into but I bet a 243 with a 103 eldX in the guts would put at least as big a hurt on something as a 180 Barnes ttsx through the guts.



In general, the “but reloader 17/26/33 or VV570 makes my xxx have ballistics of a xxx magnum” arguments are ridiculous. The bigger cases benefit from the same powders just as much and erase the supposed gap that was created.

Per the OP, I think 30/06 makes more sense as an all around hunting rifle (including elk, moose, griz) for most people than a WM. I’ve yet to witness a decent shot on a big game animal from any centerfire rifle end poorly though so I don’t have the belief you need a bunch of power.

We are in agreement.

 

[1100RemingtonMan]

I personally hunt with a 300 H&H Mag because it was gifted to me and I reload for it and any thing the 300 Win Mag can do my 300 H&H Mag will do.
Now if I was buying a New Rifle for North America I would just pick up a 30-06 bolt action with a 24-26 inch barrel, why it has all the range one needs or should be shooting at Big Game Ethically.
Just my .02 cent. The 30-06 is not to be underestimated and with today's bullets its even better.
Hunting is not target shooting and no matter how good you or your rifle is you cannot get away from bullet time of flight to target,and at extended range can you can't tell me when a Deer or Elk is going to take a step.
You could of doped the wind figured the drop and made a correct shot and the animal takes a step and in the time the bullet gets there it takes one step and now you gut shot a Majestic Animal.