25-06imp

[Millsworks]

The speed gain isn't the only thing that separates the AI cartridge. The taper and shoulder angle changes create a more efficient powder burn. This makes it a lot easier on the brass, extending the loading use quite a bit. It won't stretch the brass nearly as much after firing. Pressure in the chamber is reduced, extending barrel life.
But, I feel it makes it easier to reload, because it seems less fickle to powder types and charge weights.
Play with the seating depth after reaching an exceptable speed/pressure load. This will give a loader his accuracy.
This cartridge does seem to benefit greatly from extra barrel length too. But 26" barrels easily give over 3,200fps with 117s.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I'm using a Remington Model 700 25-06 with a factory 24" barrel. I'm happy with my 120 grain Partition load that runs 3000fps. I also like my 110 grain Accubond load that I load down to 3000fps. I'm only shooting whitetails in the 180-200 pound range. 3000fps seems to be the sweet spot for this caliber, as well as, my 7-08 120 grain NBT load running 3000fps in a Remington Model Seven SS with a 20" barrel.

I haven't had any issues with brass life yet, but I'll keep an eye on it.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Millsworks]

When loading at less than the top velocities, brass life is certainly extended. But, anything going over 3,000fps will kill stuff in short order.

 

[N2TRKYS]

The same as going less 3000fps. The animals I've shot haven't shown a lick of difference between a round running top end or one running 200fps less than top end.

 

[ImBillT]

You could set it back 7mm and have a 257Rob AI without even reaming the chamber. You’d be a couple thousandths tight in all dimensions and have bolt click, but I know guys that went from 280AI to 7x57AI without recutting the chamber. 257RobAI dies are everywhere. The 257AI will pretty much match the 25-06AI.

If it were me though, I’d just cough up the money for some RCBS or Redding 25-06AI dies and skip the smithing. My Hornady New Dimension dies were a joke. The seater just had generic steep shoulder angle, a huge neck that didn’t align anything, an oversized bullet channel and sloppy seater stem. Trash. I love most of Hornady’s stuff and they usually do an excellent job of keeping the price down and the quality up. Their New Dimension dies are garbage though. All that said, I’ve seen guns that would shoot tiny groups using ammo with terrible runout, and I’ve seen guns that would only shoot well with really straight ammo. There will be people who shoot great groups using Hornady dies, but I’m done with them.

Another die option is Forster. They will ream their dies out to fit your custom cartridge for like $17. The only problem is that you have to buy it direct from that at MSRP, which adds like $30.

 

[brettlapp]

Wow. Thanks for all the information guys. Mine is a Winchester Model 70 25-06AI.

I've got a lot of studying to do before I can reload anything but I'm very excited to get going on and it and I appreciate all of the information you have provided. Keep it coming! I love the conversation here! Even if it is greek!

 

[brettlapp]

Where would I find what the value of this rifle is?

 

[antelopedundee]

Where would I find what the value of this rifle is?

As is with an oddball chambering like that you probably wouldn't get very much. Even the standard .25-06 seems to be low on the totem pole these days so the AI is likely to be even less desirable. A lot depends upon condition of the bore. You could also put an ad in the local Craigslist or Facebook asking for someone to mentor you in the art of reloading.

 

[Millsworks]

Good chance that old rifle may need a bedding job done ( so the action and barrel doesn't move around during firing). That will likely improve the accuracy ,dramatically in some cases.
I have found the Winchester m 70 to be one of my favorites. Don't sell it. It isn't worth a whole lot, but is probably a great rifle that can be made to shoot fantastic. May be worth having a Smith bore scope the throat and barrel. Someone may have hot rodded it and thrown it to the side as fodder.
No matter what it is a great foundation for a rifle.
I would like to find a few of those in the attic too.

 

[brettlapp]

As is with an oddball chambering like that you probably wouldn't get very much. Even the standard .25-06 seems to be low on the totem pole these days so the AI is likely to be even less desirable. A lot depends upon condition of the bore. You could also put an ad in the local Craigslist or Facebook asking for someone to mentor you in the art of reloading.

I kind of figured as much, I mean, considering it was free to me, it would all be profit. But, I'll likely never get rid of it. It's a great rig. Plus, my only other option on the table is my Mosin Nagant, and it's rather accurate too... I've removed the iron sites and filed out the rear to put scope rings in and mounted a scope, sanded and restained the stock and lubed and cleaned everything up well. But, for my hunting I'll stick with the 25-06AI. I have my in-law for mentoring, I'm planning to sit down with him and bring my die to his place and just get a feel for it with him over my shoulder before I begin solo.

 

[brettlapp]

Good chance that old rifle may need a bedding job done ( so the action and barrel doesn't move around during firing). That will likely improve the accuracy ,dramatically in some cases.
I have found the Winchester m 70 to be one of my favorites. Don't sell it. It isn't worth a whole lot, but is probably a great rifle that can be made to shoot fantastic. May be worth having a Smith bore scope the throat and barrel. Someone may have hot rodded it and thrown it to the side as fodder.
No matter what it is a great foundation for a rifle.
I would like to find a few of those in the attic too.

I've heard that it could be the barrel, supposedly it shooting so hot can burn up the rifling? or something to that effect? I could be completely screwing the wording up.. I definitely won't be getting rid of it, like I said above, I only have a Mosin Nagant as my secondary rifle. I've got Shotguns, and other weapons but for rifles in general, that's it. I had a Century Arms c93 223, that I won in a raffle and I had to part with that due to some tough times (oil prices dropped). I just realized... I've never really bought a weapon..... I paid 40$ for my Mosin.. Found my 25-06 in an attic, was given my shotguns, and my 22, won the 223 in a raffle.........I'm not complaining..

Thanks for the info, I need to look into it.

So.. My other concern... the stamp where the serial number, is etched out.... should this be a concern? I was wondering if it was when they turned it to AI, they did that.. I can post a picture of necessary... thought I would inquire..

 

[Millsworks]

Could have been marked over after the rechambered was done. May never know. That looks like a post 64 type rifle. Maybe made in the 70-80s? That can be searched on the web by the serial number. Maybe has a G in front of serial number sequence.
Not a controlled round feed rifle, probably, but I happen to really like them, and feel the whole "control round feed" thing is over rated.
I recommend taking the old scope off, and check over the bases and rings for tightness. Maybe think about a newer scope. But there may be nothing wrong with the scope you have.
Many of the accuracy troubles I have seen, come down to a bad scope or loose bases.
It's definitely worth putting some time and money into, I think.

 

[brettlapp]

Could have been marked over after the rechambered was done. May never know. That looks like a post 64 type rifle. Maybe made in the 70-80s? That can be searched on the web by the serial number. Maybe has a G in front of serial number sequence.
Not a controlled round feed rifle, probably, but I happen to really like them, and feel the whole "control round feed" thing is over rated.
I recommend taking the old scope off, and check over the bases and rings for tightness. Maybe think about a newer scope. But there may be nothing wrong with the scope you have.
Many of the accuracy troubles I have seen, come down to a bad scope or loose bases.
It's definitely worth putting some time and money into, I think.

That's kind of what I was thinking, too. I'll try to make out the lettering on the serial number and see what I can come up with.

I've been definitely considering replacing the scope with something newer, since I can see game far better in my binoculars than I can my scope, it's difficult to get a long range result if I can't see what I'm looking at.

Thanks for the insight!

 

[Ben Lamb]

That's a pre-64 stock. Need photos of the other side of the action to determine if it's a pre-64 action. If so, the action and stock are worth more than the complete rifle, which is a custom. 25-06 was not a factory offering of the Pre-64 Winchester model 70.

I actually think your rifle would be worth around $750-800 as is to the right buyer. Ditch the scope and rings, get a new Leupold Vx3i & better rings and get to reloading. That's a damned fine rifle you have and if it shoots, you've got something that folks who appreciate classic rifles & custom smithing would be envious of.

 

[OhHeyThereBen]

That's a pre-64 stock. Need photos of the other side of the action to determine if it's a pre-64 action. If so, the action and stock are worth more than the complete rifle, which is a custom. 25-06 was not a factory offering of the Pre-64 Winchester model 70.

I think I'm going to take a peek up in my attic.

 

[Millsworks]

That's a pre-64 stock. Need photos of the other side of the action to determine if it's a pre-64 action. If so, the action and stock are worth more than the complete rifle, which is a custom. 25-06 was not a factory offering of the Pre-64 Winchester model 70.

I actually think your rifle would be worth around $750-800 as is to the right buyer. Ditch the scope and rings, get a new Leupold Vx3i & better rings and get to reloading. That's a damned fine rifle you have and if it shoots, you've got something that folks who appreciate classic rifles & custom smithing would be envious of.

Tough to judge the year of a m70 by the stock design. That type stock has been and still is offered now, through out production.
The serial number is the only way to know for sure. Some post 64' are crf too, but not many. It could even possibly be a factory chambered barrel. I have know idea if that cartridge was offered by Winchester or not.
It can easily be searched on the web using the serial number.
I actually seem to think that Winchester did offer that 25-06AI for a while.

 

[Ben Lamb]

That's a pretty standard pre-64 stock based on the checkering pattern and that it's not pressed, but actually cut. It's identical to my 1958 vintage 06 featherweight. They went to pressed checkering in 64 because it's cheaper. They didn't go back to cut until the 80's or so, IIRC.

The stock design and color of the finish as well are standard pre-64 M70.

The CRF action came back in the 90's, again, IIRC. This is clearly an older action, with the peep sight mount d&t on the side as well. Again - pretty standard pre-64 set up.

 

[brettlapp]

So... you guys intrigued me to look closer... and I just discovered something either very sad, or very good, I haven't decided which yet.. I'm leaning on sad... Where I THOUGHT the serial number was "etched" out... was not the serial number at all... after looking at the RIGHT angle.. I was able to identify what it actually said prior to the etching... can you see it?

I'm curious your thoughts.. if you can't see it, I'll spoil it soon.. but I've had this rifle for the last 8+ years and never could read what the "serial" said... until today.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Pre 64 257 Roberts is a major collectors piece. Having the chamber recut to 25-06 is unfortunate. How about some shots of the action, bolt & a serial number minus the last few numbers so we can date it?

 

[Millsworks]

That rifle is in need of a Smith visit for sure now.
Better figure out what caliber it is, before you go any further.
Remove the bolt and see if the serial number is etched into the bottom of it. That may help identify it for sure .
But looking at the pictures, it is possible it is a pretty 64' model. Value of a pre 64' or not, isn't likely a whole lot, with the condition it's in.
Good luck at the gun Smith's shop.