Wyoming Wolf Deal?

[trevore]

Read something posted by the Mule Deer Foundation on Facebook, that Wyoming has passed a wolf plan? Is this something that was already approved that would allow a season? Or something that still has a ways to go? Anyone up to speed on it?

 

[shoots-straight]

Big time hand job IMO. As soon as the USFWS approves this plan, even befor the ink dries, I see a new lawsuit.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

trevore---The Wyoming Legislature passed the Bill to allow wolves to be delisted in Wyoming and as soon as it goes to the Governor and is signed it will go to the USFWS. They have until 9/30 to approve it and order delisting under the plan which they already agreed with. Now we will see how many anti groups come out of the woodwork to file injunctions, etc. since as soon as they are delisted it will allow wolves to be shot in the bulk of the state where they will be considered predators, as well as have seasons set for licensed persons to take one in the trophy game areas that have been set up.

 

[trevore]

So the plan as is has already been approved? Then Dan Ash signing off on the deal should be a formality?

Next up would be a law suit or suits as SS said. Guess it's probably a little late for a season this year.

I was a little excited for the Wyoming folks when I first saw it.

 

[BuzzH]

I'm not convinced that the USFWS signing off on the wolf delisting in Wyoming is a formality. I would be surprised if they didnt, but I wouldnt be shocked.

I think WY's wolf "plan" is prime for injuctions, lawsuits, and the final battle ground for the wolf hippies.

 

[Ben Lamb]

From the outside looking in, WY is going to need their own rider in congress to pull this off.

 

[mixedbag]

I hope wy. get it thru.I've always thought their plan was the best for big game populations.I know, I know, its what has cost them 2 seasons already, but their residents want it this way.i hope some conservation orgs. help them with any lawsuits and they get their seasons.They were told s many breeding pairs in certain areas.They just want gov't to be true to their word;crazy I know.They should be treated no different then a yote imo.Now that they are here and established they will be tough to get rid of .Shoot on site areas won't hurt them one bit.They will recover each year with more young.the gov't let this game go on for much too long
GOOD LUCK WY

 

[BuzzH]

I dont think most WY residents wanted this plan...I think most WY residents would like to be in the same position that MT and ID are in right now.

Unfortunately for WY that ship already sailed...and WY didnt even have a ticket, let alone making it to the dock.

Its cost them more than 2 seasons...try 6-10.

 

[sreekers]

Agreed Buzz, most of us don't want a shoot on sight policy all over the state. I would much rather have a season, any season as a building block to get to proper management.

Our band standing has cost us many seasons, and will until we figure out that we aren't going to win this way.

 

[shoots-straight]

You have to remember, if Wyoming had a plan in place similar to Montana, or Idaho. We all would have been off the list in 2004. After the 5 years over-sight by the Feds, they could have gone to any season structure they wanted, so long as the min numbers where in place. They have nobody but their Ag community to blame.

There plan was not the best for the big game herds.

 

[cowboy]

I dont think most WY residents wanted this plan...I think most WY residents would like to be in the same position that MT and ID are in right now..

I would bet every hunter in Montana would trade our wolves for the number of wolves Wyoming has. Tell me the game herds have been affected in Wyoming as much as Idaho and Montana.

"IF" Wyoming could somehow pull this off - they will have the best wolf plan in the long run of all the Western States.

Take a look at our game populations in "the Root", The Gallatin and Paradise Valley and tell me that we have a good plan. The only good I see is another "Big Game " animal to hunt, but at what cost?????

After a full hunting season on wolves we only have an increase in wolves of 15%. Raise the quota as high as you want - you can only kill so many using ethical hunting methods. I know - quit bitching and get out there and shoot a wolf. If you think killing a wolf was tough this year, give them a couple more years and see how smart/elusive they get.

Thank God it has been a relatively "light" winter or the game populations really would have taken a HUGE hit in some areas. We in Montana now have to live with what we agreed to. In the long haul, I would guess that our deer/elk etc. herds are going to see more reductions in the future. It will be gradual but before you know it, it'll come. How do you think it'll be handled when just a couple wolf packs set up house keeping in the Breaks?? It'll take at least two years before there is "enough data" to do anything about it, and then another couple to get anything approved to do anything about it.

These magic wolf minimums are going to continue to decimate our game herds on a gradual basis and before we know it most areas are going to be affected. . In the mean time those of us from Montana and Idaho are trying to be politically correct, be careful of what and how we say something so as not to offend the non hunting crowd, fearful of loosing our current wolf hunting season etc, etc.

I think the wolf huggers took their education from the oil companies - hell - now we think
$ 3.00 gas is cheap.

I for one am cheering Wyoming on.

 

[shoots-straight]

"IF" Wyoming could somehow pull this off - they will have the best wolf plan in the long run of all the Western States.

If is a really large word given the sentence you used it in. Wyoming's plan is DOA. I would l think it neat if the enviro's just left the thing alone, but don't count on it.

We have the tools in our plan for wolf population control. Had Wyoming not played stupid all these years our plan would have been fine, using just hunting. Now that the Genie is out of the bottle, it's going to take a bit of persuading to get it back in.

In 4 of our 5 Hd in the Root we're at or over objective numbers. That's because of the BS numbers our legislature picked through a bill passed by Debbie Barret out of Dillon.

The Livestock industry is responsible for more elk deaths in Montana, than the predators were.

Cowboy, if your a member of the MSGA then you should share responsibility right along with the enviro's.

 

[Drake4]

In 4 of our 5 Hd in the Root we're at or over objective numbers.

And the Madison...and the Gravellys...and the Paradise. And we still give out 2nd cow tags in these units and had a damage hunt in the Madison this winter. Wouldn't matter if there was 1 wolf or 1000 in these units..the herd will continue to decline until the management is changed.

I don't think Wyoming's plan doesn't has a chance. Lawsuits will be filed the day that bill is passed. Would be great if it went through though.

 

[Big Fin]

Like Cowboy, I am cheering for Wyoming. I still wish their strategy had not held up the management in MT and ID for so many years. Nothing we can do about that now. I still hope they get their seasons.

WY will always have fewer wolves than MT. Just a function of area and habitat. WY did not have wolves coming in from three directions. MT had them coming in from ID, Canada, and YNP.

Idaho had twice as many wolves as MT at this time last year. So, one would expect that Id would kill twice as many wolves as MT. That is what happened, even with the differences in seasons.

I will be in Helena the next two days, fighting (possibly not just figuratively) about the future of wolf management in MT. I want to make sure that all reasonable efforts are made to improve wolf management in MT. We have a lot more options than what we are currently using and I expect the Department to use those options. All indicators are that at these meetings we will hear there decisions to implement more options.

I also want to make sure we stay within the bounds of the plan we adopted through thousands of hours of arguing, from thousands of public comments, and reflects what Montanans wanted in their wolf plan. Or at least what was wanted by the majority of those who took the time and effort to participate in the process.

One thing I am not going to let go by the wayside is something Shoots mentioned. The Elk Management Plan and the effects of HB 42.

How many hunters in SW MT know that we shot over 100 cow elk in "damage hunts" in Madison Valley in December, 2011 and January, 2012? And killed even more in 2010, and even more in 2009.

Yeah, in spite of our herds being migratory and being hammered by over harvest of cows, predation, a killer winter of 2010, we are still hammering the female segment of the population.

Hunters would be up in arms if it was wolves sent out to kill 100 cow elk this winter. Yet, no one is saying a word.

Why are we killing cow elk in late "damage hunts" in the Madison? Why do we have super aggressive seasons in the Gravellys? Why will there be a recommendation to have 450 elk B tags in the Madison for 2012?

Because we have ridiculously low population objectives in our elk management plan for that and other areas. Those low objectives cause us to be at or over objective even now, a time when hunters say they are seeing fewer elk and blaming it all on wolves. Yet, the bigger elk issues go unattended.

We did not fight so hard to get delisting, just to say we have delisting. We fought that hard so that we would manage wolves. We need more aggressive wolf management. Word is that we will hear that same message from the Department this week.

Yet, even if we kill every wolf in Montana, our elk management plan says that in most units in the wolf-infested areas, we need to kill more elk. So, killing every wolf will not increase elk herds until we change the wolf management plan, the objectives in that plan, and the ridiculous directive of HB 42.

HB 42 is the bill known as "the Barrett bill." It was sponsored by Debbie Barrett, a rancher in SW MT. It requires the Department to take all measures necessary to kill elk until numbers are at or below objectives in the plan.

How are we ever going to have more elk under that scenario? Easy answer - We are not.

So, as much as I fully intend to trap as many wolves as will be allowed in Montana in 2012, I am not going to let the Elk Management Plan and HB 42 continue to continue without change.

We will hear the whining and moaning by Fanning, Bridgers, SFW, and the likes. They are all carpet baggers who are Donny Come Lately's to the Elk Management Plan, to the issues of HB 42, and for the most part, new arrivals in the 15 years battle for wolf management in MT.

They want the world to think they have the answers. The same people who tried to kill the bill that gave us delisting, who ignore that we could kill every wolf in MT and not increase elk numbers in MT, want to drive the bus in elk management in this state.

I'm not going to sit idly by and let the fringe elements ride their short bus to Helena and promote their agenda, without trying to point out to the hunters of this state, most of whom are very intelligent guys, that we need to focus on ALL things affecting elk. Not just the trendy target represented by wolves.

I will give the report of how it goes.

Sorry this diverted the thread from the Wyoming plan. I am part of that diversion, thinking it was an MT wolf thread. Carry on about issues related to the Wyoming plan.

 

[mixedbag]

I liked your post BF.I can't keep up with all the things going on in Mt.In response to some of the Wy. guys,I have some friends there and not one want a quota hunt as Id. and Mt. have it.I believe they are a super predator that can easily withstand the same seasons as yotes do.I hope it goes through so I can get a wolf tag there this season if they don't price me as a NR out like Mt.
For sure killing a wolf will get tougher,but if you knock some of the population back,you'll be hunting more 1st year dogs.Even with shoot on site, you'd never eliminate them now.I don't know near as much as you guys that live out there concerning the wolf.but I hope it gets back to only having them in the yellowstone area
I don't know how to correct the rancher stuff.But, keep in mind these guys have to make a living raising animals there.I've seen what wintering elk do to their fencelines,and they should ALWAYS be alllowed to shoot wolves on site.I'd lke huge elk herds like eveyone else on here but not at the expense of others livelihoods.I'm showing my ignorance again,but I'm sure a few will put me in my place

 

[sweetnectar]

In order to manage wolves I think it is going to take some additional kill methods. It will likely take year round seasons, cheap tags, trapping, multiple tags per person, etc.

Does anyone know if there is such a thing as wolf decon?....because something like that might be a necessary tool.

I think the wolf huggers took their education from the oil companies - hell - now we think
$ 3.00 gas is cheap.

 

[shoots-straight]

In order to manage wolves I think it is going to take some additional kill methods. It will likely take year round seasons, cheap tags, trapping, multiple tags per person, etc.

Does anyone know if there is such a thing as wolf decon?....because something like that might be a necessary tool.

Until the 5 years of over sight by the Federal Gov. There will be no year round seasons. We have to follow the approved state wolf management plan, or we face a lawsuit, and that's un acceptable. In order to get multiple tags we have to go to our state legislature and pass a new law allowing that.

Poison would put us back on the list, and the posting of such is irresponsible at best.

 

[BuzzH]

In response to some of the Wy. guys,I have some friends there and not one want a quota hunt as Id. and Mt. have it.

I don't know near as much as you guys that live out there concerning the wolf.but I hope it gets back to only having them in the yellowstone area


I don't know how to correct the rancher stuff.But, keep in mind these guys have to make a living raising animals there.I've seen what wintering elk do to their fencelines,and they should ALWAYS be alllowed to shoot wolves on site.I'd lke huge elk herds like eveyone else on here but not at the expense of others livelihoods.I'm showing my ignorance again,but I'm sure a few will put me in my place

Not sure who you're friends are...but I know and talk to a lot of hunters in Wyoming...they want a season, any way they can get one. They would drop the predator status in a heart-beat if it meant having a season.

Why do you hope they get back to only having wolves in the Yellowstone area? That makes no sense as wolves were reintroduced to Central Idaho as well as Yellowstone. The recovery area was not limited to YNP.

The ranchers will never be happy...too many elk, too many deer, too many antelope in the first breath...then whining about wolves, coyotes, bears the next. I think they should have a seat at the table, but I also believe that the days of catering to their whining belly-aching about everything that competes with livestock needs to end. Their interests should have no more clout than that of a sportsmens...period.

 

[cowboy]

If is a really large word given the sentence you used it in.

Had Wyoming not played stupid all these years our plan would have been fine, using just hunting.

In 4 of our 5 Hd in the Root we're at or over objective numbers. That's because of the BS numbers our legislature picked through a bill passed by Debbie Barret out of Dillon.

The Livestock industry is responsible for more elk deaths in Montana, than the predators were.

Cowboy, if your a member of the MSGA then you should share responsibility right along with the enviro's.

Shoots-straight: I don't know you from a bag of rocks, but I'm sure as hell not going to let you sit up on your high horse and preach to me like I'm some damn rookie.

Wyoming's plan is what it is - we're not going to change it, so why not support it rather than blaming Wyoming for the damn mess one female and a bill from Helena that caused 98% of our problem. "IF" is a big word, such as IF my aunt would have had balls, she could have been my uncle. "IF" is the only chance Wyoming has right now. PERIOD.

And IF you think Wyoming would have played ball, hunting would have been all we would have needed, you don't know didly about wolves. Hunt them for 5 years straight years and then call me a liar after you review the harvest/quota statistics.

And NO I am not a member of MSGA - I'm just a dumb ass engineer by your insinuations.
By the way - I hunt with a number of ranchers that are MSGA members and I would sure put them in a class above your status. I would be a little careful if I was you in classifying all members of any organization.

Bottom line is : Wyoming's plan is what it is - you act and talk like you want it to fail, and I quite frankly hope it succeeds.

 

[BuzzH]

Bottom line is Wyomings plan is a pile of crap that delayed delisting by several years and cost MT and ID their right to implement their state wolf management plans.

Fact.

Wyoming may very well end up having to change their plan if they ever want wolves delisted and state control.

We'll find out by Sept. 30....