Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

[VikingsGuy]

So much for historical approach.

Straight from the American Bar Assoc:

"Causby Did Not Establish a Property Right in Airspace. Property rights advocates often assert that Causby established a property right in the airspace above a person’s real property. In so doing, they pull two quotes from the opinion: first, “the landowner . . . must have exclusive control of the immediate reaches of the enveloping atmosphere”; and, second, “the landowner, as an incident to his ownership, has a claim to [the superadjacent airspace] and . . . invasions of it are in the same category as invasions of the surface.”12 However, these quotes cannot be divorced from their context or the ultimate holding of the case. The ellipses in the first quote hold an important qualification. The quote in full is: “t is obvious that if the landowner is to have full enjoyment of the land, he must have exclusive control of the immediate reaches of the enveloping atmosphere.”13 The full quote makes clear that it is only in the context of enjoyment of the land that a property owner has any control over the airspace at all. Similarly, the sentence that directly precedes the second quote is: “The superadjacent airspace at this low altitude is so close to the land that continuous invasions of it affect the use of the surface of the land itself.”14 Thus, Causby makes plain that the only “claim” that a property owner has in regard to airspace occurs when frequent flights within the airspace affect the use of the ground.15 Read in context, these cherry-picked statements are entirely consistent with the aerial trespass doctrine and do not support the notion that a landowner has a property right in the airspace itself."

The historical approach of aerial trespass is 500 yo and includes hundreds of cases.

As for the ABA snippet - as far as it goes I tend to agree with it, but it neither disputes long history, nor does it address the many other cases, nor is it binding on anyone. In fact the ABA has all kinds of position statements that get routinely ignored by folks. You might be surprised at some of the stuff they put out.

The good news in Causby is SCOTUS was willing to set the historical approach aside when it saw a public need (in that case military aviation during the Cold War).

I am not so certain the current court will further extend given recent changes, but who knows.

 

[PrairieHunter]

So basically my plans for hunting by drone on all that inaccessible public land are going down the tubes as all these people on foot will be there as soon as this passes, before my drone even becomes available. Damn.

 

[Buffs35]

A bill to potentially make corner crossing "legal" in Wyoming comes up in the legistlature every year and usually dies in committee due to powerful lawmakers who seem to represent the landowners rather than those who want public access to public land.

Plus the state didn't have the cash to buy the Anadarko strip, so no way Gordon and the legislature pony up the just compensation required. Also, they'd only be pissing off their best constituents and donors. I am fearful this attention will actually make access worse, but I'm an eternal pessimist.

 

[YoungGun]

So basically my plans for hunting by drone on all that inaccessible public land are going down the tubes as all these people on foot will be there as soon as this passes, before my drone even becomes available. Damn.

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[VikingsGuy]

Plus the state didn't have the cash to buy the Anadarko strip, so no way Gordon and the legislature pony up the just compensation required. Also, they'd only be pissing off their best constituents and donors. I am fearful this attention will actually make access worse, but I'm an eternal pessimist.

I am sure they could afford $25 a corner.

 

[SaskHunter]

Alright, I've been following this thread closely and have even pitched in some cash for the Gofundme, but figured I would hold off on commentting as a dirty Canuck and US laws have nothing to do with me as I am nothing but a guest in your country... but!

For a bunch of "tough" cowboys à la Yellowstone, these ranchers sure are a bunch of little whiners with this whole concept of violating one's "airspace" by walking over a freaking corner... I get it, your house, your rules, but holy cow, this whole thing is asinine.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Alright, I've been following this thread closely and have even pitched in some cash for the Gofundme, but figured I would hold off on commentting as a dirty Canuck and US law have nothing to do with me as I am nothing but a guest in your country... but!

For a bunch of "tough" cowboys à la Yellowstone, these ranchers sure are a bunch of little whiners with this whole concept of violating one's "airspace" by walking over a freaking corner... I get it, your house, your rules, but holy cow, this whole thing is asinine.

Yep

 

[Irrelevant]

Alright, I've been following this thread closely and have even pitched in some cash for the Gofundme, but figured I would hold off on commentting as a dirty Canuck and US law have nothing to do with me as I am nothing but a guest in your country... but!

For a bunch of "tough" cowboys à la Yellowstone, these ranchers sure are a bunch of little whiners with this whole concept of violating one's "airspace" by walking over a freaking corner... I get it, your house, your rules, but holy cow, this whole thing is asinine.

Now you get out of here with that toxic masculinity you silly.

 

[SaskHunter]

Now you get out of here with that toxic masculinity you silly.

I legit wrote this post with 18, I counted, hairclips, pins, etc, that my daughters put in my hair after combing it for a solid 10 minutes.

 

[Bigjay73]

Now you get out of here with that toxic masculinity you silly.

Did you like "power of the dog"?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

holy cow, this whole thing is asinine.

I think we could have led with that and saved 24 pages.

 

[seeth07]

I think we could have led with that and saved 24 pages.

And remove all of my bathroom time reading material? Never...

 

[westbranch]

And remove all of my bathroom time reading material? Never...

To tie in with the Matt Rinella thread, he is concerned about hunter's rectal health. Please don't read too much while on the throne.

 

[antlerradar]

Honestly you remind me a lot of my Father-n-law.

My in-laws live in a very popular hunting spot, their place is right near a trail head so it's the ultimate temptation for slob hunters. Hunters go out and see nothing and there there are 10 deer standing in my in-laws field right off the road.

Last year I was sitting with my FIL in his blind. The neighbor has a tiny property ~30acres, my FIL owns offsetting him on 2 sides, the neighbor has a blind set up 35 yards from my FILs line on one side and 150 yards on the other, it's a flat field... pretty ridiculous set up. Anyway we are sitting there and a 4x4 is walking across my FILs field. My FIL says "I bet we are going to watch this deer jump the fence and get shot". 2 seconds later, bam...bam...

Deer drops 200 yards from the neighbors line, about 80 yards from the blind we are in, in the middle of my FILs field. Dude led with, "oh we hit it and and jumped the fence."

2 years ago someone shot a doe on my FILs place... similar deal

Same year as the doe we heard a gun shot on his lower field, drove out and a guy was parked next to my FILs hay barn loading up a deer.

All of that is egregious trespassing, all of those folks should have the book thrown at them.

Suffice to say I have experienced and get the slob hunter thing.

Part of his property borders, BLM. You can park and access the BLM but it's a bit faster to cut through a portion of my FILs place. There are some hunters who do... it drives him nuts. He's up there all the time looking for boot prints and yelling at people. (They are trespassing on his land)

That later trespassing seems like a ton of unnecessary worrying. If it were me I'd post a sign that says something to the effect of "Private Property, please stay on the trail" and then stop worrying about it. Who cares if hunters trespass 50 yards of your property.

I don't think the guys who cut across to BLM are the guys that shoot deer in the field. I don't think if you allow corner crossing it will have any effect on people illegally hunting private.

TLDR My FIL IMHO spends way too much time stressing out about trespassing.

I have a long list of stories just like your FIL. Even have a BLM corner that is at most 25 feet from the county right away. We let any one that wants to park there and walk across the 25 feet of private, don't even have to ask. It is not a big deal and really it is just a better parking spot as you can get on the same public by parking just down the road. I don't worry about the small stuff and it is not hard to pick out who is inadvertently trespassed from the ones that are egregious.

 

[homers]

My understanding is if they are found not guilty it doesn't set precedence and nothing will change (law or access wise). If found guilty, the appeal process is where rulings could happen that effect everyone.

 

[VikingsGuy]

My understanding is if they are found not guilty it doesn't set precedence and nothing will change (law or access wise). If found guilty, the appeal process is where rulings could happen that effect everyone.

If they are not guilty due to finding of facts then no real help for other cases. If they are not guilty because the judge rules on legal grounds defining trespass then binding in this one district/county - it is also instructive to other courts in the state but not binding. At each layer of appeal, the breadth of impact of ruling grows commensurate with the jurisdiction of the appeals court.

 

[BrentD]

If they are not guilty due to finding of facts then no real help for other cases. If they are not guilty because the judge rules on legal grounds defining trespass then binding in this one district/county - it is also instructive to other courts in the state but not binding. At each layer of appeal, the breadth of impact of ruling grows commensurate with the jurisdiction of the appeals court.

For another county to rule differently in a similar case, would the judge of this second county have to explain why the different verdict? or can the judge just ignore the first ruling.

 

[Sytes]

Great having our resident HT legal member share is opinion.

Keep on keeping on, VG. We all are well aware a couple here have their pissy arrogant moments. We enjoy your commentary.

 

[Buffs35]

I am sure they could afford $25 a corner.

Making up numbers is fun. I do it with my kids sometimes too. Glad you can set the market for an entire state.

 

[Buffs35]

Only one level of appeal in wyo.