WY one shot pronghorn hunt...circling the drain

[LuketheDog]

Hey Luke do some google and reading. This article explains the headdress use and how the tribal council is against it.

Lander's One Shot Antelope Hunt Faces Mounting Pressure To "Re-Write The Script"

Every September, 24 hunters gather in Lander and compete to see who can down an antelope with a single bullet. The One Shot Antelope Hunt is an…

www.wyomingpublicmedia.org

Seems just the native americans that get paid for the hunt ceremony participation are the only ones for it.

Thanks, I'm pretty familiar with it. The point is if the tribe wanted no part they could easily just pull the plug on their part of it with an official statement and pressuring their people to stop any involvement. Your article says all the same stuff the first one did and only states that there is one person from the tribe who is speaking out against it, that's not much opposition. BUT, if opponents of the hunt itself are successful in making their argument the hunt ceases to exist and all of the peripheral issues (like the tribal involvement) go away too...except for the photo of Hickenlooper in a headdress, which will follow him all through his future campaigning now but will likely not really affect the number of votes he gets in September, because he's their man now...

 

[Deleted member 18333]

For me it is much less about the optics and "traditions" of this event and there degree of offensiveness. I do not find this event to be offensive or sexist. If someone else does, I understand and respect that. It is not my place to tell others what they should or should not be offended by. I get a bit tired of the belief by some in our society that because I take offense to something so must you otherwise you are a bigot, racist, insensitive, etc. Or visa versa.

For me it is entirely about taking tags that should be available to all for the opportunity to draw and giving them to a select group. These past shooters have done nothing special to deserve these tags. Why are they more deserving of these tags than you and I. Because we elected them to office? Because they played a professional sport? Because they have a podcast? Because they work for a company that sponsored this event? Because they are wealthy? Where in regulation, statute, law or rule does it say that we will allocate tags according to any one of these criteria? When this event started I suspect antelope tags were easy to come by and demand was less than supply for the most part. That time has long since come and gone. This is the issue for me and it will be the focus of my comments to the Commission at tomorrows meeting. I'll leave the offensiveness arguments to others that are more passionate about it and feel it more than I do.

 

[TheNorthStar]

BuzzH and JM77 were trying to “cancel” this robbery of tags before cancel culture was even a thing. The optics of the insensitivity of hunt participants is merely added fuel to an already raging fire.

Please don't misconstrue, I see 2 distinctly separate issues in the originally posted article and 86'ing the hunt is not the one I'm cautioning against. The hunt itself seems like an unfair allocation of resources that ought to be available to all residents in equal measure and should be ended on the merits of that argument alone.

 

[wytex]

Because they are men

Thanks, I'm pretty familiar with it. The point is if the tribe wanted no part they could easily just pull the plug on their part of it with an official statement and pressuring their people to stop any involvement. Your article says all the same stuff the first one did and only states that there is one person from the tribe who is speaking out against it, that's not much opposition. BUT, if opponents of the hunt itself are successful in making their argument the hunt ceases to exist and all of the peripheral issues (like the tribal involvement) go away too...except for the photo of Hickenlooper in a headdress, which will follow him all through his future campaigning now but will likely not really affect the number of votes he gets in September, because he's their man now...

The one article may state that One woman is against it but look closer, 7 indigenous women wrote letters against it and the one woman state she has had many tribal members voice opinions against the participation.
The simple fact that they will not even consider allowing a woman in the hunt is enough for me to get it stopped. We don;t need a womens hunt to make it "right". Take all the guaranteed tags away and make them draw.

 

[Pelican]

Because they are men

The one article may state that One woman is against it but look closer, 7 indigenous women wrote letters against it and the one woman state she has had many tribal members voice opinions against the participation.
The simple fact that they will not even consider allowing a woman in the hunt is enough for me to get it stopped. We don;t need a womens hunt to make it "right". Take all the guaranteed tags away and make them draw.

This thread was also started by a forum member who a few hours prior to starting this thread chose to belittled a male forum member by referring to them by a name typically associated with females. Headdresses are over the line, but implying one gender is inferior during a pointless online argument is acceptable behavior? Ephemeral wokeness.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I'm in no position to speak about the hunt or its allocation of tags, but I'd be careful in celebrating any part of "cancel culture". You never know when it'll come for you next.

@BuzzH brought up how problematic the One Shot hunt was on the forum in 2017, this isn't a new issue.

Lander "one shot" hunt issues...

One of the legislative interim topics that is going to be getting some press is the issue of "complimentary and set-aside" licenses. This all came about due to a bill that would have set aside 80 licenses for a womens only pronghorn hunt in NE Wyoming. While I had heard of the "one shot"...

www.hunttalk.com

 

[seeth07]

The simple fact that they will not even consider allowing a woman in the hunt is enough for me to get it stopped.

I have to disagree with you here. Separation of gender is part of human culture around the globe in all aspects of competition. It's not sexist. It's just the culture norm to create sex exclusive competitions due to the physical and emotional differences between the male and female body. I don't buy the argument that this event should be stopped solely on this argument.

 

[TheNorthStar]

@BuzzH brought up how problematic the One Shot hunt was on the forum in 2017, this isn't a new issue.

Lander "one shot" hunt issues...

One of the legislative interim topics that is going to be getting some press is the issue of "complimentary and set-aside" licenses. This all came about due to a bill that would have set aside 80 licenses for a womens only pronghorn hunt in NE Wyoming. While I had heard of the "one shot"...

www.hunttalk.com

I don’t believe I made that claim and I'm not sure how that relates to my post, honestly.

Edit* Unless the term "cancel culture" isn't understood. The issue I take with the article is one native woman trying to ruin the man because he wore a headdress. Being offended by something someone has done isn't reason to hurt that person, their livelihood or their family in any way you can. By all means, end this hunt on the merits of it's unfairness, not because he put a hat on his head that means more to some people than others.

The ends don't always justify the means.

 

[madtom]

I have to disagree with you here. Separation of gender is part of human culture around the globe in all aspects of competition. It's not sexist. It's just the culture norm to create sex exclusive competitions due to the physical and emotional differences between the male and female body. I don't buy the argument that this event should be stopped solely on this argument.

What natural distinction between genders should preclude women from joining an antelope hunt? I never use my male genitalia while hunting. I’ve also watched plenty of women handily harvest game without my help.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I never use my male genitalia while hunting.

Never?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I don’t believe I made that claim and I'm not sure how that relates to my post, honestly.

Edit* Unless the term "cancel culture" isn't understood. The issue I take with the article is one native woman trying to ruin the man because he wore a headdress. Being offended by something someone has done isn't reason to hurt that person, their livelihood or their family in any way you can. By all means, end this hunt on the merits of it's unfairness, not because he put a hat on his head that means more to some people than others.

The ends don't always justify the means.

My apologies I misinterpreted your post and thought you were linking this to recent events (Protests, statues, name changes, etc) with the reference to cancel culture.

 

[wytex]

I have to disagree with you here. Separation of gender is part of human culture around the globe in all aspects of competition. It's not sexist. It's just the culture norm to create sex exclusive competitions due to the physical and emotional differences between the male and female body. I don't buy the argument that this event should be stopped solely on this argument.

What, men are more physically and emotionally equipped to go on a pronghorn hunt than a female ? Really. I beg to differ. Been hunting 33 years just in Wyoming and never had to have a male with me to get my pronghorn.
It is sexist to say that.

 

[seeth07]

What, men are more physically and emotionally equipped to go on a pronghorn hunt than a female ? Really. I beg to differ.

What natural distinction between genders should preclude women from joining an antelope hunt? I never use my male genitalia while hunting. I’ve also watched plenty of women handily harvest game without my help.

You two are looking too short sighted at the point I was trying to make. I said nothing about the ability of the female hunter to be able to harvest an Antelope. In fact, I feel the exact opposite as my wife goes on every big game adventure with me and its almost her that is pulling the trigger. Hell she even packs out just as much meat as I do. Here she is packing out a 100+ plus pound pack of moose meat and gear....



The point I was just trying to make is that in competitions, there almost is a division between male and female. I play volleyball in a COED and a male only league. I shoot bar league archery....in the male division. A hunt competition that the organizers choose to make it male only is nothing unfair. If the organization wants to create a woman's division, great. If they don't, why doesn't a particular Woman step up and create their own? O wait...they did and actually they topped the men by creating an event that is 1000000 times better.

 

[wytex]

Actually I do not support the women's hunt getting licenses either.
No licenses should be taken from the public for these events. All should have to draw . If they can come up with basically extra licenses for areas that are hard to draw then those licenses should be allocated to the public draw, not a private event. If a commissioner wants to donate their allotted licenses then that is their choice, those numbers are limited.

And I'm sorry but it should not even be a "competition" and separate but equal does not fly with me.
To me hunting is not a sport so divisions based on gender are not needed.

The licenses are a public resource allocated to an event that excludes some people solely based on gender and while that is enough reason for me to not support it, it is not the only reason.
The entirety of it is just not right. Only part of the funds raised are used in Wyoming . Give them state licenses, make the funds raised stay in state. Make them draw licenses to participate.
If they want to discriminate based on gender then make it a private event and don't give a state resource, as in licenses, complementary to participate. The legislature was forced to allocate licenses to the womens hunt based on the fact that they were in essence discriminating against women with the old allocation only to the One Shot. Neither should be given licenses.

Anyone know, whatever fees they pay, do they stay in towns at local hotels and eat and local restaurants or it is basically a guided hunt put up on private ranches and out to hunt public and private lands each day ? Are they spreading the wealth around locally or just to the tribal members who choose to participate ?

 

[ClearCreek]

Anyone know, whatever fees they pay, do they stay in towns at local hotels and eat and local restaurants or it is basically a guided hunt put up on private ranches and out to hunt public and private lands each day ? Are they spreading the wealth around locally or just to the tribal members who choose to participate ?

I believe the questions you asked that I have quoted above pertain to the men's One Shot hunt.

However for the WY Woman's Antelope Hunt the participants all stay at The Ranch at Ucross, a privately owned facility. The women hunt primarily on private land and are guided, for the most part, by the landowners of the land they hunt.

This event, as you may be aware, is a fund raising event for the Wyoming Women's Foundation. The cost to participate is $5,000. There are several "scholarships" given that allow women that can not afford the $5,000 an opportunity to participate. There are usually 30-40 participants each year that have a wide range of hunting experience; from very proficient to others that have never shot a gun until they show up for the sight-in.

ClearCreek

 

[wytex]

Thanks ClearCreek, I was aware of most of the facts about the womens hunt. Interesting, their monies raised benefit women in Wyoming.
While a worthy cause, they could probably hold both hunts in areas that have left over tags every year. Let the hunters draw their tags .
Interesting also they have 30-40 participants but the One Shot needs 80 tags and the majority going to past shooters .

 

[seeth07]

While a worthy cause, they could probably hold both hunts in areas that have left over tags every year. Let the hunters draw their tags .

They are in a unit that does not take any preference points to draw and goes as a second choice in the draw every year....so they actually are basically doing what you are asking. They just make the process easier for them to deal with by handling the draw for them by putting those tags aside.

 

[seeth07]

I stand corrected....the 2020 draw was brutal. Both units that they get tags for were not 100% with 0 points this year. 235/252 and 236/308. Crazy year though.

 

[seeth07]

If they want to discriminate based on gender then make it a private event and don't give a state resource, as in licenses, complementary to participate. The legislature was forced to allocate licenses to the womens hunt based on the fact that they were in essence discriminating against women with the old allocation only to the One Shot. Neither should be given licenses.

I couldn't disagree more. Allocating 40 licenses for a fundraising event with as much impact as the Women's One Shot in an area of the state with an abundance of antelope tags and mostly private land I would say is the one exception where its legit for a state to give a special set of tags for a special group of people. With the size of the ranches in that area actually, maybe there is some kind of loophole that the government uses to have an exception where the landowner tags issued to those ranches are actually transferred to this event since the event uses a lot of private ranches to carry out their hunts.

Antelope Hunt – Schedule | Wyoming Women's Foundation

 

[ClearCreek]

With the size of the ranches in that area actually, maybe there is some kind of loophole that the government uses to have an exception where the landowner tags issued to those ranches are actually transferred to this event since the event uses a lot of private ranches to carry out their hunts.

Antelope Hunt – Schedule | Wyoming Women's Foundation

Not the case at all. Landowner licenses in Wyoming can not legally be transferred to a hunter outside the family.

ClearCreek