WY Land Hunting Etiquette

[wytex]

I have no clue on Utah, but I do know what can happen and does out here.
See my poached elk thread.
Folks cut fences, un -wire locked gates, etc. Quite common in some areas and sadly residents are probably behind most of it from our issues. Have dealt with a few NRs that think we have a license and are going to fill regardless of legal access but by far a few residents are the issue for us.
Things happen quite frequently, I'm happy to hear you don't have to deal with them on your leased land. You are lucky I think.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

And sometimes outfitters post public property.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I have no clue on Utah, but I do know what can happen and does out here.
See my poached elk thread.
Folks cut fences, un -wire locked gates, etc. Quite common in some areas and sadly residents are probably behind most of it from our issues. Have dealt with a few NRs that think we have a license and are going to fill regardless of legal access but by far a few residents are the issue for us.
Things happen quite frequently, I'm happy to hear you don't have to deal with them on your leased land. You are lucky I think.

That's been my experience too. It's almost always locals who are driving out of bounds on block management property or not signing in. The latter REALLY pisses me off! Use the owner's land and don't let him get paid for it. Assholes! Last year I confronted one of these local jerks. Asked him if he forgot to sign in. "No, I signed in." No ya didn't. I hunted this property yesterday and left my sign in ticket in the book (rather than stuff it in the box so others who come along afterwards would know someone else was in the area). No one signed in after me. "I ain't letting the government know I have guns." Hmmm. Maybe he's a felon who shouldn't have guns? I advised this clown that the owner of the property happened to be a "gubmt man" who sat on the BMA board ... and I happened to know where he lives. He exited quickly but not before I photographed his vehicle and plates. Turned it in but never heard if anything came of it.

In all my 50+ years of hunting I can only recall three gates left down that I know should have been closed. The first was three years ago. A county road through private ranch accessed an old gravel pit on a large chunk of state land. First gate next to the highway is usually left open as that section is now farmed and not grazed. But a couple of miles from the gravel pit at border of state land there's a fence with gate across the road. This was one of those gates strung so tight it was impossible to open. Curiously, the wire fence on both sides of anchor posts was downright saggy. No problem for me. I'd just as soon walk back to the creek to hunt birds and had been doing it for years. This time I drive up to park and gate is down in the road. I get out and can see from tracks someone had recently drove in and out. It appeared they tried unsuccessfully to close the gate. When I got in to the creek I could see quite a few cows on the other side. There were several spots with gravelly fords so they probably wouldn't stay over there long. When I came out I got the tools out and fixed the gate. Sure, I could run around and try to find who leases the state land and advertise that someone had left a gate laying down and give him a good excuse to cry to the county so he could lock the other gate at the highway. It's pretty obvious why the gate at the gravel pit was made to be impossible. Or I could just take care of it myself. I'm not wild about more people accessing "my hunting spot" but it is public land. They are entitled. Anyway, that rancher grazes the place bald so bird hunting isn't that great. I mostly go in there for the walk and scenery. That day I was almost run over right out in the open by perhaps the biggest whitetail buck I've ever seen. Not sure what spooked him but he didn't jump off that cow path until I waved my gun in the air. Seven paces!

The other incident that comes to mind was a neighbor leaving a gate open. I watched him do it. I gotta say though, I think that young fella was mentally handicapped. I just closed the gate and didn't say anything. My late son was autistic.

The third incident was a local hunter on BMA land. I ran into him coming out and jumped him about leaving the gate down and his explanation was he was only driving in for a quick look. "Yeah well, if you saw something to shoot at it wouldn't be so quick." No cattle in the area to get out so what's the problem. "The owner might be in the area! What's he gonna think?"

Just remembered a fourth incident last year. Driving down a county road I noticed a gate at a sign in box was open and several tracks into the property. I also noticed five angus cows grazing in the bottom. From the top at the box I could see almost the entire small parcel and no other cows. Strange. I was late but turned around and closed the gate. It appeared the tracks went to nearby graineries. Also strange that hunters would only go that far. Why not park at the county road? Then we stopped at the next ranchouse down the road and advised him what I'd done (I knew it wasn't his property). He suspected he knew who owned the cows and would call him. Two days later I see the gate is open again and cows still there. This is a frequently traveled county road and those are black cows. Accident waiting to happen. So I drive all the way around to ranch adjoining the back side. I'm pretty sure those are his graineries and he's leasing the property. "What's the story with the cows and open gate?" Turns out he's hauling grain to town. Those aren't his cows and the owner won't come get them so he doesn't give a shit. He's hoping they leave. I just shake my head ... and kept closing the gate until the cows finally disappeared.

 

[JAG]

Funny, if it was so bad.....why let anybody on your property?

She said it was because she wants to share her land. In exchange for hunters asking to do so, she asked that we be polite.

 

[Mallardsx2]

And sometimes outfitters post public property.

Seen it many times. I reported the one piece of posted public land that I came across in Wyoming to the local warden and was told that the signs had been placed there in error and that they had been notified many times. To which I replied "Well why don't you take them down?"

No answer......I think the local Warden hunted there....

 

[JAG]

That's been my experience too. It's almost always locals ...

In case any of you are wondering, @OntarioHunter's experience with local hunters is not anecdotal. Game Wardens will voice the same frustrations with ill-mannered trespassers.

Here's an excerpt from an article involving poaching on tribal lands:

“Bull$#!t,” the man in the passenger seat replied. “I’m not putting up with this $#!t.”
https://wyofile.com/who-does-the-state-of-wyoming-consider-a-poacher/
Friday called this response “typical” of his interactions with white Wyomingites. Out-of-staters speak to him in the way you’d expect: Yes sir, thank you sir, we’ll get out of here right away. But locals can get belligerent even before he explains what they’ve done wrong. He thinks being confronted by a Native person in a position of authority makes them upset.

 

[wytex]

People are going to be people, bad apples all around us.
Bad hunters and bad landowners too.
For the most part, hunters have been good folks I will say.
Ranchers have been good to us so no bad words there but again all types of folks out there.
Been a few times folks granted access that didn't even ask because of how they acted on the ranch we work for.

 

[BuzzH]

Seen it many times. I reported the one piece of posted public land that I came across in Wyoming to the local warden and was told that the signs had been placed there in error and that they had been notified many times. To which I replied "Well why don't you take them down?"

No answer......I think the local Warden hunted there....

Doubtful the warden hunted there.

More likely they don't often do things to "offend" any landowners, to the point of flat being ridiculous about it. The GF handles rogue landowners with kid gloves for sure. A landowner can do things wrong and they aren't in any trouble. The public does the same thing, tickets are flying.

I had a similar thing happen some years back, rancher put a t-post and not trespassing sign on a county road, as in right in the middle of the road.

I took pictures sent it to a friend in Casper who forwarded to the Sheriff's office and local Warden.

I asked the Warden if he took it down the next day, he said he wasn't going to since he felt the sign was "private property".

Seemed lame to me, but when we left a few days later with our 2 elk, the sign was gone.

 

[slatebuilder]

Our family owns a piece of property along a creek. We maintain a small camp site there for family use and have a porta john there that we pay to have serviced and maintained weekly. The property happens to sit right where there is a fantastic fishing and swimming hole. My grandfather was 93 when he died 3 years ago. In his lifetime the family allowed the driveway to this piece of property to be a public access to the creek. Walk in access for fishing, swimming, kayaks/canoe launching etc. So for 96 years that I know of, people have been accessing the creek through this property. That policy continues though I am starting to question why. “I’ll treat it like it’s mine” or “I’ll treat it like I own it” used to mean something. I can’t imagine anyone doing the things they do at our place to their own stuff.

3 weeks ago some asshole took our fire poker and stabbed a bunch of holes in our log benches. It’s not a big deal, but why?

The amount of garbage people leave behind at the creek and on their way to and from is staggering.

We have never locked the porta john ever. If a stranger has an emergency, feel free to use it has always been how it is. I can’t imagine folks doing in their homes what they do in a porta john.

Lots of small stuff that generally is frustrating and makes a bit more work for us as a land owner.

 

[OntarioHunter]

To explain my "reengineering" stubborn to close gates. Often this only involves adding a staple to bottom catch loop. For whatever reason I cannot fathom, it seems ranchers only prefer to use one staple at the back side of anchor post to hold these in place. Result is the loop drops when gate is opened and change in angle due to drooping brings the gate post closer to anchor post when hunter tries to close the gate. If the gate is strung real tight, this can make it nearly impossible to close. Sure, he can lift up the loop with his boot while trying to place the gate post in it, but that's not always easy to do if the gate is strung tight. And frankly, many hunters unfamiliar with ranching may not be smart enough to figure it out. Quick cure is to simply add another staple (or two) to the sides of bottom loop at anchor post to hold the loop permanently in horizontal position. That's it! Damned if I know why nobody does it.

Not sure if it's true but I was told Montana BMA was paying HS shop students to build wire gate closers similar to below which are given to participating ranches so the problem with gate closing can be minimized. I do notice what appears to be same design homemade closers on many BMA ranches. Those things sure make it easy to close even the tightest of wire gates. And no need for hunter to wrap himself around anchor post to pull gate closed ... and tear up a $300 coat!

 

[NEWHunter]

People not following TABK, damaged property, etc. I get it. Very legitimate complaints and maybe her reminders and bringing these issues to light will help.

Complaining about gut piles? I get it - but did you ask these folks not to do that? I’ll bet not. Complaining about people “hiding” legally on public near your property line? She could have phrased that differently or just not at all. I get the point of the article but I didn’t really care for the “tone” of it. Seems a bit unfair - but her platform and her prerogative.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

People not following TABK, damaged property, etc. I get it. Very legitimate complaints and maybe her reminders and bringing these issues to light will help.

Complaining about gut piles? I get it - but did you ask these folks not to do that? I’ll bet not. Complaining about people “hiding” legally on public near your property line? She could have phrased that differently or just not at all. I get the point of the article but I didn’t really care for the “tone” of it. Seems a bit unfair - but her platform and her prerogative.

Maybe the person hiding was really just trying to take a dump?

 

[JM77]

Doubtful the warden hunted there.

More likely they don't often do things to "offend" any landowners, to the point of flat being ridiculous about it. The GF handles rogue landowners with kid gloves for sure. A landowner can do things wrong and they aren't in any trouble. The public does the same thing, tickets are flying.

I had a similar thing happen some years back, rancher put a t-post and not trespassing sign on a county road, as in right in the middle of the road.

I took pictures sent it to a friend in Casper who forwarded to the Sheriff's office and local Warden.

I asked the Warden if he took it down the next day, he said he wasn't going to since he felt the sign was "private property".

Seemed lame to me, but when we left a few days later with our 2 elk, the sign was gone.

You mean this sign @BuzzH ? The Sheriff was instrumental in it's removal. There are bad actors on both sides, this time it was the landowner.

I will admit though, that sportsman take the blame many times for plain hooligans on the prowl. When some jackasses torn down some gates and damaged a cow camp cabin, sportsman around Casper raised $5,000 to repair the mess for a local landowner who provides valuable access through the Hunter Management program.

 

[LuketheDog]

Funny that after leasing a big chunk of private ground in Northern Utah, with county roads on 2 sides of the property and public access on the back I can think of maybe 5-6 instances of any issues worth noting. How does a piece of ground in Wyoming get trashed worst than a property in Utah with far more hunters? Public ground here gets pounded and with county roads and a common border the risk is pretty high for the potential for bad things to happen.

I suspect she assembled a bunch of anecdotes from various sources, or, frankly, made them up for effect. I've never met a real rancher with enough free time to drive around watching hunters on their land for hours at a time...

 

[wytex]

To explain my "reengineering" stubborn to close gates. Often this only involves adding a staple to bottom catch loop. For whatever reason I cannot fathom, it seems ranchers only prefer to use one staple at the back side of anchor post to hold these in place. Result is the loop drops when gate is opened and change in angle due to drooping brings the gate post closer to anchor post when hunter tries to close the gate. If the gate is strung real tight, this can make it nearly impossible to close. Sure, he can lift up the loop with his boot while trying to place the gate post in it, but that's not always easy to do if the gate is strung tight. And frankly, many hunters unfamiliar with ranching may not be smart enough to figure it out. Quick cure is to simply add another staple (or two) to the sides of bottom loop at anchor post to hold the loop permanently in horizontal position. That's it! Damned if I know why nobody does it.

Not sure if it's true but I was told Montana BMA was paying HS shop students to build wire gate closers similar to below which are given to participating ranches so the problem with gate closing can be minimized. I do notice what appears to be same design homemade closers on many BMA ranches. Those things sure make it easy to close even the tightest of wire gates. And no need for hunter to wrap himself around anchor post to pull gate closed ... and tear up a $300 coat!View attachment 233172

Those are very popular around here also, highway dept. uses them om right of way gates. They do have a cost.
Simply pulling on the gate wire to stretch also works. I've hunted by myself before and come across gates I didn't think I could get closed, there is always a way. Be it extra wire laying around or just using your head to think about it a minute to find a solution.
I would take a rip in my coat over leaving a gate open any day, not my land to leave unencumbered.

 

[treedagain]

Be it extra wire laying around

Now your saying it's OK to alter a gate?

 

[OntarioHunter]

Those are very popular around here also, highway dept. uses them om right of way gates. They do have a cost.
Simply pulling on the gate wire to stretch also works. I've hunted by myself before and come across gates I didn't think I could get closed, there is always a way. Be it extra wire laying around or just using your head to think about it a minute to find a solution.
I would take a rip in my coat over leaving a gate open any day, not my land to leave unencumbered.

I would never leave a gate open, hence altering it so it can be closed. Lots of ways to tear a coat but it is irritating when it happened trying to close a stubborn gate. But unless the gate has one of those lever closers, it's pretty much necessary to wrap oneself around the anchor post to close it or gate will be too saggy to do its job properly. Torn coat is acceptable collateral damage in that case. Oh well. But when it takes two guys to close a gate, then there's a high probability it won't be doing its job if someone hunting alone gives up and leaves it on the ground.

 

[idelkslayer]

Oh yes, the poor beset upon rancher. I grow tired of that old schtick. Farmers and Ranchers do not have a monopoly on hard work, flat tires, delayed schedules or setbacks. Most that I have known worked easier schedules than many other professions.

There are certainly valid complaints in the article and I can't fault her for pointing those out. The violators should be prosecuted, absolutely. I appreciate the private land access programs and can't stand the bad behavior that endangers that access for everyone else. Her tone turns toward condescending a couple times which is grating but I can understand that inclination. I take issue with her complaint about the hunter "hiding" on the property line on public land. She and most every other large landowner will be very quick to point out that they have the right to do whatever they damn well please on their land right up to the property boundary. Well guess what, hunters have a right to use public land right up to the boundary also. If it makes you uncomfortable that I am right next to the fence, it sounds like your problem not mine. Respect is a two way street, landowners risk that when they harass hunters who are engaged in a legal activity on public land. I'll follow the rules when I'm on private land, but landowners don't get to intimidate or push me around anywhere else.

 

[bts09]

For me, the article is just a good reminder that there are other perspectives to consider when we're out there hunting. Is is the best written, best tone, 100% accurate, etc, etc? Naw, of course not. But I do think I'm often guilty of not taking into account what a neighboring landowner might want, and this is a decent reminder.

 

[Brachii]

I have, on more than one occasion, also seen a land owner attempt to block a public road going through their property in Wyoming. Sometimes it’s a sign. Once, they even parked their truck in the middle and sat on the tailgate mean-mugging. Told the GW but don’t know if anything ever came of it.

In Colorado, there’s a piece of BLM land that has private land signs scattered through the whole thing. I thought that would be illegal but every year I tell the game wardens and every year I return and they’re still there.

I’ve even been threatened by a land owner for hunting on PUBLIC land adjacent to his. Had to call the warden to tell him he had no right to kick me out.

Still, every time I draw HMA permission, I’ll send a hand written thank you letter with the land owner’s tag and hope karma catches up to the bad landowners.