WY corner hopping is trespass

[BuzzH]

So SW,

Are you going to answer BRI's question or not...would you rather see that land in private ownership?

 

[SWMontana1]

Makes sense Buzz, but in this certain case- how in the world could they even regulate that with no access? I just get testy about my land and access points as I have to put up with it all fall, every year - didn't mean to come off so argumentative...

One thing though.... hooked on phonics would only help me with my reading capabilities... not my reading comphrension skills

 

[SWMontana1]

So SW,

Are you going to answer BRI's question or not...would you rather see that land in private ownership?

Yes I will. A lot of the land is still owned, to this day, privately by RY Timber and Plum Creek... then they sub divide it or have sold it back to the Forest Service....

The Forest Service is trading away irreplaceable native forest to timber companies, often getting clearcuts, "rocks and ice" and low-quality habitat in return. In the Southwest, the BLM is using land trades to help companies like ASARCO and Phelps Dodge expand their already mammoth open-pit mining operations. Rampant urban expansion throughout the arid West is being facilitated through huge land exchanges with developers.
Far from being the benevolent, "win-win" deals the proponents would have us believe they are, land exchanges are divesting us of some of the most ecologically valuable lands we have left. Add insult on injury, taxpayers are losing millions of dollars each year through the under-appraisal of public lands and the overvaluing of private land.

I would rather the Forest Service quit trading off nice land to only see it ruined later.... Yes it is in better hands with the Forest Service, but it should just be kept that way and always should have been!

 

[BuzzH]

SW,

I'd be very cautious of saying nothing can change with regard to State or Federal land.

I well remember the day when a leasee of State Land in Montana could post state land even when that state land had legal public access. If you've lived in Montana long, you should remember that.

I also well remember when a coalition of Montana Sportsmen decided to fight it, that the landowners/leasee's were saying, "That will never happen"...

Famous last words....and a huge WIN for Sportsmen and access gained to a lot of accessible State lands.

Like I say...all they have to do is keep pushing...

 

[SWMontana1]

SW,

I'd be very cautious of saying nothing can change with regard to State or Federal land.

I well remember the day when a leasee of State Land in Montana could post state land even when that state land had legal public access. If you've lived in Montana long, you should remember that.

I also well remember when a coalition of Montana Sportsmen decided to fight it, that the landowners/leasee's were saying, "That will never happen"...

Famous last words....and a huge WIN for Sportsmen.

Like I say...all they have to do is keep pushing...

I completely agree but I just don't see public access happening through private land.... when and where would you draw the line? almost asking for trouble... trespassing, poaching, vandalism, etc.

 

[BuzzH]

Probably not...but I CAN see the lease agreements changing to exclude some a-hole from using public land for their exclusive hunting club as well...

 

[SWMontana1]

Probably not...but I CAN see the lease agreements changing to exclude some a-hole from using public land for their exclusive hunting club as well...

that makes complete sense... just going to be hard to regulate when not even the fish and game have the access to do the proper regulating.

 

[BuzzH]

I think you're wrong...wardens have more authority than a sheriff...by a land-slide, and mostly dont need a warrant either.

All they have to have is a reasonable suspision that someone is hunting that public to gain access...even through private, even ON private.

They have the authority to search your boats, vehicles, camps, all that stuff without a warrant if they believe there is anything going on.

Seen it...and its within their authority.

 

[BuzzH]

SW...if you're interested...Montana Law codes 87-1-502, 45-6-203, 75-10-212 may answer your questions.

A wardens authority is mostly found here, no distinction to private or public land, not left out by accident.:

87-1-506. Enforcement powers of wardens. (1) A warden may:
(a) serve a subpoena issued by a court for the trial of a violator of the fish and game laws;
(b) search, without a warrant, any tent not used as a residence, any boat, vehicle, box, locker, basket, creel, crate, game bag, or package, or their contents upon probable cause to believe that any fish and game law or department rule for the protection, conservation, or propagation of game, fish, birds, or fur-bearing animals has been violated;
(c) search, with a search warrant, any dwelling house or other building;
(d) seize game, fish, game birds, and fur-bearing animals and any parts of them taken or possessed in violation of the law or the rules of the department;
(e) seize and hold, subject to law or the orders of the department, devices that have been used to unlawfully take game, fish, birds, or fur-bearing animals;
(f) arrest, in accordance with Title 46, chapter 6, a violator of a fish and game law or rule of the department, violation of which is a misdemeanor;
(g) enforce the disorderly conduct and public nuisance laws, 45-8-101 and 45-8-111, as they apply to the operation of motorboats on all waters of the state;
(h) as provided for in 37-47-345, investigate and make arrests for violations of the provisions of Title 37, chapter 47, and of any rules adopted pursuant to that chapter relating to the regulation of outfitters and guides in the state;
(i) enforce the provisions of Title 80, chapter 7, part 10, and rules adopted under Title 80, chapter 7, part 10, for those invasive species that are under the department's jurisdiction; and
(j) exercise the other powers of peace officers in the enforcement of the fish and game laws, the rules of the department, and judgments obtained for violation of those laws or rules.
(2) The meat of game animals that are seized pursuant to subsection (1)(d) must be donated directly to the Montana food bank network or to public or charitable institutions to the extent reasonably feasible. Any meat that the department is unable to donate must be sold pursuant to 87-1-511, with the proceeds to be distributed as provided in 87-1-513(2).

History: En. 26-110.3 by Sec. 13, Ch. 511, L. 1973; amd. Sec. 1, Ch. 9, L. 1977; amd. Sec. 13, Ch. 417, L. 1977; R.C.M. 1947, 26-110.3; amd. Sec. 1, Ch. 694, L. 1983; amd. Sec. 1, Ch. 336, L. 1991; amd. Sec. 3, Ch. 523, L. 1997; amd. Sec. 16, Ch. 429, L. 2009.

 

[SWMontana1]

Pretty crazy....


But will they get on a horse and go in 5 - 10 miles to find these "private hunting clubs" on public land in negative degree weather in 3 feet of snow?

Plus, they would have to be there at the right time on the right day.... I think FWP would want them patrolling rather than going on wild goose chases.

 

[BuzzH]

Not crazy at all when you consider how valuable wildlife is to the public...and more importantly the protection of it.

Wouldnt make a nickels worth of sense to not give wardens the authority to investigate and check hunters on private land...they're hunting a PUBLIC resource. That resource needs to be protected no matter where its found.

I'd argue there almost needs to be more enforcement and checking on private land...as many landowners live under the wrong impression that they own the wildlife as well as the land. Many believe they are above the law in regard to what, where, when, and how they hunt the publics wildlife...seen that too, many times.

I've been checked in some crazy places...and I'm good friends with a guy that patrols the Bob Marshall on horseback every year.

 

[SWMontana1]

Makes complete sense. I have never seen a warden my entire lifetime of hunting but most of that has been done on private land.

 

[Dinkshooter]

I’m not sure there is anything that pisses me off more than a road headed to public land, that is then blocked by private with public on the other side and the landowner uses the roads on the public ground. Almost gives me a stroke.

 

[SWMontana1]

I’m not sure there is anything that pisses me off more than a road headed to public land, that is then blocked by private with public on the other side and the landowner uses the roads on the public ground. Almost gives me a stroke.

Even if the landowner didn't use the roads you would still be upset? Probably not as upset but still mad that that certain section of public land is going to waste and no one is enjoying it.

 

[Dinkshooter]

As long as there was a tank trap at the private/public line, fine. One battle at a time.

 

[konasage]

Buzz is Right!!

Wyoming Law basically says the same thing for Wardens.... the land may be private however the wildlife belongs to the public, and to properly protect the resource Wardens are able to come onto private lands under "exigent circumstances" that apply to most things we deal with in the outside world as far as vehicles, coolers, boats, game animals that may have been taken illegally, that may be transported or moved as to hide evidence rather easily.

Sort of the same thing with Law enforcement officers that can travel onto private lands to prosecute DUI and Wreckless driving. Private property isn't meant to be a shield for all things illegal, and getting a warrant, in the courts eyes, is not always plausible.

SW, I do see your point about many of the issues you bring including paying for road upkeep however it seems that you are the only one that gets ANY use of this land. Here in CO, the tables seem to be turned quite often where the county pays to grade and upkeep the roads that travel through some private for historic access and the county pays for it all, including roadbase up to their gate. Seems also that the roads are kept all the way up to private because of the public on both sides of the road, just works out nice for the landowner and sometimes works well for both parties. Most of this works its self out however you do get those areas we will never all agree on and individuals that take things too far. This year I had a friend from AZ and one from FINLAND come to hunt elk in CO. Fin are you listening? A ranch hand stopped by and told us we had to move our wall tent because it was too close to a gate that he needed to get his cows through. He was not civil about it and got told what he could do with his request. My friends were wondering if this is how all ranchers are in Colorado. To my amazement, I ended up getting a call from the ranch manager that was sorry we had such an episode with his help and assured us that he was not going to be around next year. That was impressive.

Little things can turn into big issues so lets work to get it right. I love my public land and would like to be able to use as much of it as possible. Hope we can get some of this figured out.......

I would also like to know how Fin got denied taking a helicopter into public lands....???
Seems fine to me.. I know a guy in CO that did just that.

KonaSage

 

[SWMontana1]

Buzz is Right!!

Wyoming Law basically says the same thing for Wardens.... the land may be private however the wildlife belongs to the public, and to properly protect the resource Wardens are able to come onto private lands under "exigent circumstances" that apply to most things we deal with in the outside world as far as vehicles, coolers, boats, game animals that may have been taken illegally, that may be transported or moved as to hide evidence rather easily.

Sort of the same thing with Law enforcement officers that can travel onto private lands to prosecute DUI and Wreckless driving. Private property isn't meant to be a shield for all things illegal, and getting a warrant, in the courts eyes, is not always plausible.

SW, I do see your point about many of the issues you bring including paying for road upkeep however it seems that you are the only one that gets ANY use of this land. Here in CO, the tables seem to be turned quite often where the county pays to grade and upkeep the roads that travel through some private for historic access and the county pays for it all, including roadbase up to their gate. Seems also that the roads are kept all the way up to private because of the public on both sides of the road, just works out nice for the landowner and sometimes works well for both parties. Most of this works its self out however you do get those areas we will never all agree on and individuals that take things too far. This year I had a friend from AZ and one from FINLAND come to hunt elk in CO. Fin are you listening? A ranch hand stopped by and told us we had to move our wall tent because it was too close to a gate that he needed to get his cows through. He was not civil about it and got told what he could do with his request. My friends were wondering if this is how all ranchers are in Colorado. To my amazement, I ended up getting a call from the ranch manager that was sorry we had such an episode with his help and assured us that he was not going to be around next year. That was impressive.

Little things can turn into big issues so lets work to get it right. I love my public land and would like to be able to use as much of it as possible. Hope we can get some of this figured out.......

I would also like to know how Fin got denied taking a helicopter into public lands....???
Seems fine to me.. I know a guy in CO that did just that.

KonaSage

CO staet pays for maintenance of a private road that leads through private property up public land? seems like private landowners would need to be on board.

 

[konasage]

They are... They are not going to deny the state grading their road for free. This is not a wide practice but happens when key access points are involved. The landowners are not going to do it to make it easier for public access.

 

[BrowningBLR]

They are... They are not going to deny the state grading their road for free. This is not a wide practice but happens when key access points are involved. The landowners are not going to do it to make it easier for public access.

ok ok, not a wide practice... I was going to say... that would NEVER happen in Montana! I could see that happening to give access to the public to a lot of land but not a small section or half a section - not worth the hassle.

 

[konasage]

True, we are talking about thousands of acres of public... I am not sure what the "official" rules of engagement are for this but i've seen it myself, if they were going that way anyhow, they put the blade down.