WOW WYOMING LAND GRAB

[VikingsGuy]

Back to beer surveys and gun pics for me. Maybe BenLamb and BrentD will teach me more about cool old guns.

 

[JLS]

I suggest the pot stop calling names. My posts have nothing to do with oil companies over paying and refunding those payments to oil companies and you know it.

I don't recall calling anyone names. I never said your posts did, and I have no need to convince anyone of anything. I think any productivity this discussion had has probably expired.

 

[rwc101]

For the love of god someone start a music thread

 

[VikingsGuy]

But before I go, . . .

This thread was disappointing all around. Lots of good points from different perspectives from folks I usually learn from (agree or disagree). Not sure how this went toxic, but to the extent I was part of the escalation I apologize. State land management in its own right is not a simple topic and we managed to raise 15 other reasonable but tangential issues and it all fell apart from there.

Take care, and I hope you can enjoy some public lands and a beer this weekend - since I am in urban MN this weekend I will just have to settle for 2 beers.

 

[buckbull]

China can't purchase these lands due to CFIUS rules.

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
Office of Investment Security
31 CFR Part 802
RIN 1505–AC63
Provisions Pertaining to Certain
Transactions by Foreign Persons
Involving Real Estate in the United

Part-2 Utah Test and Training Range, West Desert Test Center
Part 3- 90th Missile Wing, Francis E. Warren Air Force Base
Missile Field (Colorado, Nebraska, and Wyoming).

They certainly could buy a large chunk of it. While its true there are proximity laws where the US government does not allow foreign ownership next to national security assets there is plenty of land that exists outside of this range. Foreign countries own over 26 million acres in the United States, they are finding it somewhere.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

They certainly could buy a large chunk of it. While its true there are proximity laws where the US government does not allow foreign ownership next to national security assets there is plenty of land that exists outside of this range. Foreign countries own over 26 million acres in the United States, they are finding it somewhere.

I’m not saying there isn’t, I’m saying it’s a non-starter for this deal. Likely 90% of the value is precluded areas.

 

[ImBillT]

I am sure that a lot of that is on Federal land, so send me my check.

The problem I have with your argument is that you will never be able to acquire more public land (unless it is given to the state - which happens occasionally). And if there is no rainy-day fund, any time there is a budget shortfall the odds of selling a piece of public land go up. I think we agree that Governments should be more fiscally responsible, but that would have to involve an increase in taxes or less payments to retirees. Side Note - The Illinois Supreme Court said the state was legally obligated to pay the promised retirement benefits, setting a precedent for other states to worry about. It is certainly a hot mess.

In theory, your tax burden is lower than it otherwise would be because of revenue that the federal government receives from those lands. Again, no check required. In reality, the federal budget is no longer tied to revenue...until that either gets reformed or implodes.

No one is saying that there should be no rainy-day fund.(except for Democrats in TX actually) The rainy-day fun’s should NOT be based on land. It should be highly liquid. I’m not claiming that his land purchase has anything to do with a rainy-day fund. You just keep bringing it up.

Earlier you attempted to say that the recent federal tax cuts failed to adequately stimulate the economy compared to the government keeping that money by pointing out that the GDP grew by $850B but the debt grew by $1.2T. That’s not how you evaluate the economic impact of the tax cut. You compare the taxes cut to the increase in GDP. The tax cut did not cause debt.

 

[JLS]

Will a .270 Winchester kill an elk or do i need a bigger gun?

 

[ImBillT]

But before I go, . . .

This thread was disappointing all around. Lots of good points from different perspectives from folks I usually learn from (agree or disagree). Not sure how this went toxic, but to the extent I was part of the escalation I apologize. State land management in its own right is not a simple topic and we managed to raise 15 other reasonable but tangential issues and it all fell apart from there.

Take care, and I hope you can enjoy some public lands and a beer this weekend - since I am in urban MN this weekend I will just have to settle for 2 beers.

It went toxic because I posted in a thread about WY. That might as well be against the rules.

 

[SAJ-99]

That’s not how you evaluate the economic impact of the tax cut. You compare the taxes cut to the increase in GDP. The tax cut did not cause debt.

I will agree that it isn't a perfect comparison, but that is because there is no good comparison. You can't compare the amount of taxes not collected to the change in GDP. We are running a $25T dollar economy and GDP trends up. You have to look at revenues and outlays. All you need to see below is total revenues continue to trend down, and that is despite tariff collections, and outlays trend up (Social Security/Medicare and Def are the drivers there). Trust me, there is a plethora of research on the topic of tax cuts and growth. Economists largely agree that the two are unrelated.

 

[JM77]

But before I go, . . .

This thread was disappointing all around. Lots of good points from different perspectives from folks I usually learn from (agree or disagree). Not sure how this went toxic, but to the extent I was part of the escalation I apologize. State land management in its own right is not a simple topic and we managed to raise 15 other reasonable but tangential issues and it all fell apart from there.

Take care, and I hope you can enjoy some public lands and a beer this weekend - since I am in urban MN this weekend I will just have to settle for 2 beers.

My apologies, but you and another's extensive posting on threads and me reading through a thread and thinking I'll never get that time back, seem to be directly related.

There needs to be a way to go back to the first page and warn others they might want to reconsider how valuable their time is. Big Fin?

 

[88man]

How many surface acres for sale? 200,000 or 1,000,000???

 

[mplane72]

For the love of god someone start a music thread

I've been expecting to see some well timed memes of a dead horse getting beat or a lady yelling at a cat.... but I'm a page or so behind.

You all probably have more in common than not but you've latched on to your argument and won't let go.

 

[ImBillT]

I've been expecting to see some well timed memes of a dead horse getting beat or a lady yelling at a cat.... but I'm a page or so behind.

You all probably have more in common than not but you've latched on to your argument and won't let go.

I don’t have anything personally against anyone in the thread and hope they don’t feel that way.

 

[ImBillT]

I will agree that it isn't a perfect comparison, but that is because there is no good comparison. You can't compare the amount of taxes not collected to the change in GDP. We are running a $25T dollar economy and GDP trends up. You have to look at revenues and outlays. All you need to see below is total revenues continue to trend down, and that is despite tariff collections, and outlays trend up (Social Security/Medicare and Def are the drivers there). Trust me, there is a plethora of research on the topic of tax cuts and growth. Economists largely agree that the two are unrelated.

View attachment 128791

I agree that there is no good comparison.

Total government revenue is not important here. Total outlay is equally unimportant here.

Social Security wouldn’t even matter if the money that was supposed to go to Social Security had not been spent. It also wouldn’t matter if Social Security has remained optional, as originally intended. Social Security and the VA are the two most wonderful examples of government corruption and incompetence. They perfectly illustrate the reason that I would be uneasy if my state was making such a purchase of land.

I said it in the first post, I’ve said it since, and I’ll say it again, just for anyone who hasn’t waded through all the muck, WY can and should do what they want here. It’s not my money, it’s not my state, it’s not illegal, and I never even said they were doing anything wrong. I would be uneasy if my state did that. Nonetheless, wildlife, and possibly even myself, may one day benefit from the purchase if it goes through. That is unless BuzzH can keep me out of WY.

 

[JM77]

I don’t have anything personally against anyone in the thread and hope they don’t feel that way.

Read post #272, yeah you're that guy...

 

[VikingsGuy]

Read post #272, yeah you're that guy...

You missed a few who are common thread killers/spinners and frequent vistors to BigFin's naughty list -- a few you seem to 'like' pretty frequently, so I guess you give a pass to the contributors you agree with -- which is fine, boring but fine.

 

[ImBillT]

Read post #272, yeah you're that guy...

So I’ve extensively posted. What does that have to do with me having something against someone personally? Am I not allowed to disagree with a person and still value them as a human being?

I do not hate people simply because we have a different point of view. If I did, I would hate everyone. There is a person in this thread that seems to take issue with just about everything I say in just about any thread. I don’t even have anything against him personally. I don’t always like the way he makes his arguments, but that doesn’t mean I hate him, or if we ever met, that we couldn’t get along.

 

[npaden]

I will agree that it isn't a perfect comparison, but that is because there is no good comparison. You can't compare the amount of taxes not collected to the change in GDP. We are running a $25T dollar economy and GDP trends up. You have to look at revenues and outlays. All you need to see below is total revenues continue to trend down, and that is despite tariff collections, and outlays trend up (Social Security/Medicare and Def are the drivers there). Trust me, there is a plethora of research on the topic of tax cuts and growth. Economists largely agree that the two are unrelated.

View attachment 128791

I've stayed out of it but this is one of the worst graphs in the history of graphs.

If you cut the tax rate then taxes are going to be a smaller percentage of GDP. It's a fact. How you could have it work otherwise I have no idea.

What that graph doesn't tell you at all is that GDP grew enough that revenues actually were up slightly overall.

What that graph actually does tell you is that government spending is completely out of hand and has actually gotten worse under Trump instead of better.

 

[SAJ-99]

I've stayed out of it but this is one of the worst graphs in the history of graphs.

If you cut the tax rate then taxes are going to be a smaller percentage of GDP. It's a fact. How you could have it work otherwise I have no idea.

What that graph doesn't tell you at all is that GDP grew enough that revenues actually were up slightly overall.

What that graph actually does tell you is that government spending is completely out of hand and has actually gotten worse under Trump instead of better.

Far from the worst graph ever, but you notice the difficulty in measuring the impact of a change in the economy. GDP is simply a constant by which you are measuring the two variables. Revenues did increase last year by like 4% (about equal to nominal GDP growth) but you expect that in a growing economy. You don’t care so much about GDP or its growth, what you care about is you financial situation (revs vs expenses). As you pointed out, moving in opposite directions is bad. As the saying goes, when you find yourself in a hole, first stop digging. Unfortunately every candidate regardless of party brings another shovel and promises to dig their way out. It’s insane.