Wolves

[Sytes]

Thought I would cross post this here. It was in
http://www.missoulian.com/news/opinion/mailbag/article_8c54a996-4185-11df-be64-001cc4c002e0.html
It is an interesting opinion. Anyone familiar with wildlife biologist Dr. Valerius Geist? Objective or Subjective in opinions?

Heh, it appears Hinkle's opinion is to enact another eradication of wolves - Bounties, etc... I am not for such... I would like to see good management of numbers with tags qty to assist - year round, etc... though this new perspective seems an interesting analysis of potential hazards and considering the alledged US Supreme Courts opinion on State / Federal action (as placed in bold).

http://saveelk.com/wolf_094.htm

Sen. Greg Hinkle submitted the following letter to be read at the March 2, 2010 meeting of the Environmental Quality Council.

Environmental Quality Council
Representative Chas Vincent, Chair
P.O. Box 201704
Helena, Mt. 59620-1704

Re: Wolf as disease carriers

Dear Representative Vincent and members of the Council,

I have reviewed the documents before this Council on the spread of Hydatid Disease via the wolf. In addition to this, I have reviewed information from the Center of Disease Control (CDC) and studies by renowned wildlife biologist Dr. Valerius Geist, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Science at the University of Calgary. You have seen his comments in an email dated February 28, 2010 titled, “EQC and wolves/wolf diseases”.

You have information indicating that almost two-thirds of the wolves in Montana are carriers of the Hydatid Tapeworm and are contaminating our landscape with the eggs of this worm. We have a much milder climate in Montana than in the Far North and it appears this will contribute to a more prevalent spread of the disease. You have read Dr. Geists comments on how easily humans can come in contact with the eggs through pets and wildlife where deer or elk are intermediate hosts contributing to the spread of the disease. The seriousness of this contamination of the landscape can not be understated or denied.

In a fact sheet published by the CDC on Echinococossis it is stated, in part, that a person can become infected “by directly ingesting food items contaminated with stool (or eggs) from foxes, coyotes (wolves). This might include grass, herbs, greens, or berries gathered in fields.” Considering the number of wolves in western Montana, to what extent is the probability of wild berries being contaminated?

I have a copy of a letter written to Ed Bangs, Wolf Specialist with the United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) dated October 3, 1993 from Will N. Graves (Gray Wolf EIS). In that letter, Mr. Graves pointed out the fact that wolves of the north were Hydatid carriers and should not be introduced into the United States by the USFWS. This dated letter was prior to the introduction program; therefore, was the warning ignored or disregarded by Mr. Bangs?

The Montana Constitution in Article IX, Section 1 guarantees every Montanan the unalienable right to a clean and healthy environment; that the legislature will administer and enforce this duty; and that “the legislature shall provide adequate remedies for the protection of the environmental life support system from degradation and provide adequate remedies to prevent unreasonable depletion and degradation of natural resources.”

The expansion of the wolf population enhanced by foreign wolves is virtually wiping out western Montana’s big game herds. I know that from personal observations and those of other outdoorsmen.

I would point out that in a US Supreme Court case; Printz v. United States, 95-1503; the Court referred to a previous case; New York v. United States, 505 U.S. 144 (1992); and they stated in Printz, “The Federal government”, we held, “may not compel the States to enact or administer a federal regulatory program”, Id., at188. This begs the question, in my mind; did the USFWS have the authority to contaminate our environment with diseased wolves?

Where do we go from here? I believe there are some options. First would be to request that the Attorney General of Montana fully investigate whether Mr. Bangs and the USFWS knew of the potential of bringing diseased wolves from a foreign country into the State. If this is found to be true, the State should sue USFWS for violating our Constitutional guarantee to a clean and healthful environment. Second, we should immediately begin to eradicate the source of the problem. Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks (FWP) should make available an unlimited number of wolf tags and open the season year round. They should educate all hunters on the potential hazard of handling a wolf (or coyote). The funds from the wolf tags should be divided up and all those who harvest a wolf at the end of each calendar year will receive a payment for each wolf harvested. Yes, it is called a bounty. Thirdly, due to deer and elk being intermediate hosts of the disease, FWP should immediately enforce the prohibition on the feeding of ungulates. Illegal feeding concentrates deer and elk creating a hazard for everyone. Other than that, what other sound options are there to hold the spread of this disease in check?

Sincerely,

Senator Greg Hinkle
###
Greg Hinkle represents Senate District 7, which includes western Missoula County and all of Mineral County.

 

[----]

Interesting letter.
It'd have a lot more credit if it wasn't linked on saveelk.com.

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

I think he meant to post this in the joke forum......

Moderator please move this

Saveelk.com is like totally my favorite site *LOL* that and watchgameandfish.org or gameandfishwatch.org *whatever*

 

[Big Fin]

Anyone familiar with wildlife biologist Dr. Valerius Geist? Objective or Subjective in opinions?

One of the most respected biologists of our time. I sat on a board of directors with him a few years back. I respect him very much. Not sure in what context his research/opinion is being used/quoted.

I do know he is challenging a lot of supposed science that he feels is socially/politically influenced/motivated and feels it has tainted the objectivity of science. Read some of his writings out on the B&C site. Interesting stuff.

 

[Gerald Martin]

It will be interesting to see if this gains any traction. Sen Hinkle and several others gave a talk last week at the local high school about this subject. I didn't attend but my B-in-law did and it sounded like there were a lot of others that were there.
I know Sen. Hinkle personally. While his views on wolves might not be practical to achieve he does bring up some valid concerns.
Requardless of whether or not I agree exactly with his proposed solutions I do know that Montana hunters have an ally in Sen. Hinkle.

 

[Sytes]

long post - though interesting review if interests in wolves, etc.

Interesting... Thanks guys. I'll be sure to keep a critical focus when reading savveelk type literature. Based on Fin's understanding of Valerius Geist and some additional research, located the publication that seems to have grabbed the attention of the "wolf debate".

Some basic background on Valerius Geist:

A good article from ESPN re: Valerius Geist

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?id=4700466

And on his research of wolves:

by Dr. Valerius Geist, PhD., Professional Biologist, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Science

Dear friends,

We can summarize matters pertaining to the presence of hydatid disease as follows. As expected, following some time after the spread of wolves, there was the entry of sylvatic hydatid Echinococcus granulosus disease into said wolf populations and associated prey. Earlier on fox tape worm, E. multilocularis had spread into the NW United States and I understand that it is still spreading. This dreaded parasite has been reported from foxes and coyotes. Since E. multilocularis has been reported from wolves in Europe, and since wolves may be avid “mousers”, opportunity permitting, it is likely that E. multulocularis will be reported in American wolves as well. As you are aware, E. multilocularis cycles primarily between canids and rodents (mainly voles). Moreover, since the pastoral type of E. granulosus is found cycling between domestic sheep and dogs further south, it is likely that, in time, stray wolves will pick up this variant of hydatid disease. Consequently, we expect wolves, eventually, to be carriers of sylvatic, pastoral and alveolar hydatid disease.

You may have noticed that there is some discrepancy in the accounts of hydatid disease emanating from wildlife agencies as opposed to accounts by clinicians. My understanding of hydatid disease, which I have carried with me ever since my student days over 40 years ago, matches that of the clinicians. It is a silent disease, difficult to diagnose, with little specificity in symptoms, gradually developing worse over 10-20 years, and, depending on the location and number of cysts, ranging in effects from benign to lethal. It is particularly dangerous to anyone engaged in an active, sporting lifestyle, since blows to the body can lead to rupture of cysts with dreadful consequences, and prolonged, costly treatment. Alveolar hydatid disease in particular is likely to be lethal.

It is well known that domestic dogs play a very large risk factor in hydatid disease. Unlike in Northern Canada or Alaska, in the West one is dealing with much greater densities of people, dogs and carrier species such as deer or elk. High incidents of the parasite in wolves and coyotes and a high infestation rate with cysts in lungs and liver of deer and elk, put at risk the ranching, farming and rural communities. In winter time deer and elk will frequently be found on ranches close to communities. Dogs from ranches, farms and hamlets will have access to winter killed carcasses of deer and elk as well as to offal left in the field during the hunting season. Once infected with dog tape worm, the ranch and house dogs will contaminate the yard, porches, living rooms etc with hydatid eggs. There is no escape from this! Ten to twenty years down the road, hydatid disease will raise its head, in particular in persons who as toddlers crawled over floors walked over by people and dogs carrying in hydatid eggs from the outside. Please inform yourself what this is likely to mean in terms of prognosis, suffering and costs!

We know that in the past there were attempts in Finland and in Russia to eliminate, or at least control hydatid disease. In Finland the eradication of hydatid disease was accomplished by diminishing wolf numbers and treating domestic dogs with anti-helmithic drugs. In Russia, controlling wolf density in spring and summer led to significant declines in the disease in the prey (see p. 83 of Will Graves 2007, Wolves in Russia. Detselig, Calgary [here, here]). I am suggesting that eliminating hydatid disease be discussed, and suggest the following approach.

1.) Assuming the number of wolf packs can be reduced so as to retain a vibrant, abundant prey base, that developmental studies proceed on how to create bait stations that are accepted by wolves, with bait containing anti-helminthic drugs that are readily eaten by wolves. I am aware that this will not be a quick project. Rather I expect that wolves will accept bait stations, let alone the bait, only very gradually. It will take time, experimentation and sophisticated know how to make bait stations operational. However, once accepted by wolves, the bait stations will break the hydatid cycle between wolves and ungulates. Over time, this will lead to diminished infections of deer and elk, and this with re-infection with the parasite by wolves and coyotes.

2.) Unfortunately, under moist and cold conditions hydatid eggs remain viable for months and may even infect after three and a half years. Under dry, hot conditions the eggs die quickly. Burning the understory in forests will not eliminate the dangers from hydatid eggs, but will certainly reduce such. It’s a policy worth looking at.

3.) Simultaneously, a thorough campaign must be initiated to regularly de-worm dogs in danger areas as well as encourage specific hygienic measures. Here it means winning the ears and the trust of the rural communities.

Finally we have to look to history. Wolves have been exterminated from lived in landscapes universally because they, or their diseases, posed a serious threat to affected people, livestock and wild life. The lessons from history are that we can at best live with wolves if such are relatively few, the abundance of natural prey is high, and the risk from diseases non existent. We have the means and intelligence to achieve such.

Seems the saveelk crowd is pushing this to some degree - though it is not directly linked to saveelk... This info is being published in a large variety of publications not only from saveelk.



Other sources publishing this recent letter:

http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/article.php/20100305154807190

http://www.montananewsreports.com/R...nkle-letter-Wolves-as-disease-carriers-984736

Also, On Senator Greg W. Hinkle (MT)
http://www.votesmart.org/bio.php?can_id=11467

 

[smalls]

As Fin said, Geist is the real deal and very well respected from what I've seen. Listened to him speak a couple of years ago (I think at the NDWF annual meeting).

 

[tjones]

Check Hinkle's voting record. Like a fair number of our folks in Helena, I wouldn't say he was a friend of the sportsmen.

With the wolf issue sitting on Malloy's desk, outfits like saveelk.com, lobo watch, bounties and the the whole sss crowd are not doing anyone any favors and as hunters we do not want them representing us.

 

[sweetnectar]

Once more people start understanding this problem the SSS motto will become shoot and let lay for fear of getting tape worms hanging out your rear. Do you have any idea of how itchy that would be?
Also, If I'm understanding this right when this hits the elk herds and deer, then when I'm gutting out my critters I'm subject to infection as well???
Well I suppose the elk and deer will be less healthy because they will have tape worms sucking the strength out of them and spend usefull energy itching their rears. And as a wise Randy once said, "as the elk go, so do the elk hunters" We'll just grow weaker and have itchy rears.

 

[drahthaar]

Echinococcosis has been reported in Manitoba, Canada. Outside North America, incidence rates vary considerably, from less than 1 case per 100,000 people in many parts of the world, to 13 cases per 100,000 people in Greece, 143 cases per 100,000 people in Argentina, 197 cases per 100,000 people in the Xinjiang province of China, and 220 cases per 100,000 people in Kenya's Turkana district.

The Turkana district's particularly high incidence rate is attributed to 2 cultural practices. Some tribes eat canine intestine that has been roasted on a stick over a campfire; disease transmission likely occurs when infected intestine is not thoroughly cooked. Some tribes also do not bury their dead; carnivores may become the direct intermediate host after eating corpses.

Infection rates for Echinococcus(all three, granulosus, mulilocularis, and vogeli combined) in the US is <1 per 1 million. Northern Alaska has endemic areas of granulosus and those are still <1 per 100,000.

Comparatively, infection rates for E-coli are betwee 1 and 2 per 100,000.

First two paragraphs were cut and pasted off a medical website, sorry, should have said that.

I am not going to lose sleep over Hydatid disease right now.

 

[TOM IN TENNESSEE]

sweetnectar, what elk and deer? For that matter , what moose and Big Horn Sheep? The fugging wolves are eating them all!
Meanwhile, back on the ranch, a buddy has apparently found us an Alberta Wolf hunt where we can kill any and all wolves we see and use baits, traps and E-Callers! And cheap!!

 

[fowladdict]

sweetnectar, what elk and deer? For that matter , what moose and Big Horn Sheep? The fugging wolves are eating them all!
Meanwhile, back on the ranch, a buddy has apparently found us an Alberta Wolf hunt where we can kill any and all wolves we see and use baits, traps and E-Callers! And cheap!!

I'm afraid to ask you what "cheap" is. Cheap to me is 12.50 (or whatever), the cost of a resident Idaho wolf tag.

 

[MattK]

People want to get rid of all the wolves but the sad part is...they didn't even fill the quota in ID last year.

Idaho’s wolf-hunting season came to a close Wednesday with hunters having bagged 185 of the predators, 35 short of the statewide quota of 220.

Wildlife officials hailed the hunt, the first since wolves were removed from the endangered species list, as a success that proved the state can manage the animals. But a federal judge may still put wolves back on the list, and it’s not clear how he’ll view the state’s handling of its first season or potential changes to its hunting regulations.

“This is a historic moment,” Cal Groen, director of the Idaho Department of Fish and Game, told reporters Wednesday. “We can take a deep breath now.”

Idaho was home to at least 843 wolves at the end of 2009, down just slightly from the year before, while the number of breeding pairs increased to 49.

The inaugural hunt has stabilized the population, said Groen and Jon Rachael, Fish and Game’s state wildlife manager. Now, hunters will see their role expand as the agency works toward the Fish and Game Commission’s state goal of 518 total wolves.

Agency staff has yet to compile a report and recommendations for the commission — the next season won’t be set until August. But Groen and Rachael said they’re looking at a wide range of changes, including increasing bag limits in remote areas, adjusting tag numbers and allowing electronic predator calls. The agency is also looking at different management strategies in the backcountry where hunting is not as effective, Groen said, including trapping wolves or using outfitters and guides as agents for Fish and Game “in extreme situations.”

The season brought with it a learning curve for both the hunters and their prey. Many hunters set out thinking their odds of getting a wolf were higher, Rachael said.

“Some of them have learned from this and really have seen it as a challenge,” Rachael said.

Those people include Jeff Frost of Twin Falls, who hunted wolves north of Ketchum on opening day. Like most wolf hunters he knows of, he came away empty-handed after spotting six wolves his first day.

“I think that’s what you’re going to see,” he told the Times-News later Wednesday. “They’ve adapted to some pressure, so they’re going to be harder to find.”

Along with tweaking the seasons, the agency wants to bring back out-of-state hunters, who according to surveys stayed away last year in part because of fee increases passed by the 2009 Legislature. Of the nearly 31,400 wolf tags sold this season, only 684 were to hunters from outside the state, and Idaho residents ended up with about 86 percent of the wolves killed.

Groen said Idaho outfitters are now starting to market wolf hunts to the rest of the country. Legislators approved a bill this year allowing nonresident elk or deer tags to be used for big-game predators such as wolves and bears, he said, and the agency will look at lowering some of its nonresident fees in problem wolf areas.

Given that Fish and Game relies on fee revenue rather than general funds, officials will also look in the next year or two at raising resident fees, Groen said. Legislators in 2009 pared out the in-state fee increases the agency had proposed.

Whether the agency can hold a second hunt this fall is up to U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy, who is currently receiving arguments in his Montana courtroom regarding if the wolves should be listed again. The biggest issue now appears to be whether the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service was allowed to leave out Wyoming when it delisted Rocky Mountain wolves in Idaho and Montana.

Groen said he’s sure any reversal will be based more on technicalities and procedures than on his state’s management program.

“We played by the rules, we had a good season and I’m trusting we’ll have another hunting season,” he said.

Andrew Weeks contributed to this report.

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

People want to get rid of all the wolves but the sad part is...they didn't even fill the quota in ID last year.

Pussies.....

 

[sweetnectar]

Come to think about it, I don't know a game warden in Montana that would care if anyone shot a wolf in season or out, stuffed it or let it lay. I think the way things are going the accepted practice is to "obey the law" but we aren't inforcing the wolf worshiper laws.