Wilks brothers true colors are shining through.....

[fowladdict]

Aerials NEVER line up with cadastral data. Your pic is very misleading.

I know that...I am not trying to mislead anyone. I am just trying to show that GIS data should be used with caution. On this particular development the aerial is closer than the lot lines shown because the subdivision on the GIS data is not laid out properly in relation to the true section corners. I only know this because I am currently the PLS working on this subdivision. If you were to venture over to the west you would see that the aerials line up with the roadways quite impressively.

 

[JWP58]

Then you should have no trouble getting permission -- FREE permission -- to go hunt that chunk of land.

That is, if you're so confident that such things actually work in the real world and planes are not needed.

So its the fee you're upset with? Which is a topic I haven't even addressed in any of my posts in this topic.

And please quote where I stated "planes aren't needed"....please. I've stated at least three times that I think using a plane or helicopter is perfectly ok.


P.S. if they come out and prove the land was in fact surveyed and the fences are completely legal.......what then? Any chance apologies are going to be aired???? I doubt it.

 

[RobG]

BLM flew more than once. BLM was on the ground several times. Apparently, there are a couple spots where the cat tracks disturbed public ground, but not with the blade down. The fences, from what I've heard, are verified to be on private. The fences were cleared with MT FWP before they were built... BLM has nothing to do with these particular fences. This is all 3rd and 4th hand info... so take it as you like...

Anyone hearing of any good bulls flying out of there this year??

Can anyone verify/document that there were cat tracks on public ground? This could be important if they start writing tickets for aircraft landing off the road...

 

[wingman1]

Interesting. According to Wingmans GPS the fence was almost 100 yards off from the boundary the GPS showed. Fowladdict said he has seen up to 100 feet off on his comparisons so 30 yards is his worst case vs. the 100 yards wingman saw. Ton's of surveyors and real estate agents use the map on a GPS all the time to find property pins and boundaries and we have never heard any concerns with accuracy over what Garmin GPS units claim which is 10-20 feet.

I don't think recreational GPS units are that far off. If so I should be living 3 houses down in my neighborhood. A 100 yards off would put me 3 lots over!

Matt

Matt you are correct. With your map set I have stepped on most of the pins in this parcel with accuracy from 1' to 15'. If you are going to hunt this then please verify the fence north of the gap yourself. So far I'm the only one with boots on the ground that seems to care.

 

[wingman1]

Can anyone verify/document that there were cat tracks on public ground? This could be important if they start writing tickets for aircraft landing off the road...

I did that already.

 

[wingman1]

So its the fee you're upset with? Which is a topic I haven't even addressed in any of my posts in this topic.

And please quote where I stated "planes aren't needed"....please. I've stated at least three times that I think using a plane or helicopter is perfectly ok.


P.S. if they come out and prove the land was in fact surveyed and the fences are completely legal.......what then? Any chance apologies are going to be aired???? I doubt it.

I would gladly apologize publicly if I was wrong. That's not the case I promise.

 

[wingman1]

Nobody's doubting the garmin accuracy claims, we're talking about the GIS source data you're using.

Comparing house lot cadastral accuracy to giant ranch data in Eastern MT is ridiculous.

A ton of original PLS stones across MT have never been recovered, and every time they are boundaries move. Who knows how that boundary was drawn in by the GIS tech, and how accurate it is.

Don't think I'm trying to defend the Wilks in any way, just pointing out what I know. I've worked in both GIS and Survey, and they are entirely different processes for entirely different applications. This is a survey matter, not a GIS one.

Just a question.... When a professional surveyor surveys a plot, what materials are used to actually mark the lines? All I have seen here is small pieces of trail ribbon tied on tree branches and such. Not a single survey lingo marking or stake anywhere. I was ahead of the work line and could see marking progress from day to day.

 

[smarandr]

Not a signal survey lingo marking or stake anywhere.

Jose must have been through the area after the survey.

Sorry, I know this is a serious thread, but I couldn't resist.

 

[fowladdict]

Just a question.... When a professional surveyor surveys a plot, what materials are used to actually mark the lines? All I have seen here is small pieces of trail ribbon tied on tree branches and such. Not a single survey lingo marking or stake anywhere. I was ahead of the work line and could see marking progress from day to day.

If BLM has been back in the area sometime in the last 60 to 70 years you would probably find 3.5-inch brass caps on top of a 2-inch iron pipe marked at original government corners (most likely section and quarter corners). If original corners were set by a private surveyor you should find a similar cap (aluminum or brass) and these would have the license number of the Professional Land Surveyor. If property corners are not part of original GLO (now BLM) survey you may find a rebar with a plastic cap on top. That cap should have a license number on it.

What did the pins you stepped on look like? Also surveyors flagging (ribbon) is used by more than just surveyors. Who knows what the reasoning it was placed for, it may not have placed set by a surveyor.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Are they on BLM or did they buy this property?
If the republicans have their way this would happen all the time. They object to BLM managing public
land. They want BLM land sold off because it's big government in their ignorant opinion.

 

[MThuntr]

Regardless of any boundaries or surveys, they have not addressed the Unlawful Inclosure of Public Lands and a five wire fencing obstructing wildlife.

Kat, I asked this question on BLM's Facebook page and they said "the fence was totally constructed on private property. Private landowners have the right to fence their property."

 

[double_a85]

After seeing what wingman1 showed on documentation... and then the response the BLM gives, makes it very frustrating to say the least. They say nothing of cat tracks on the BLM but instead bring up how someone landed a plane off the road...

Complete political b.s between the landowners and the BLM.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Regardless of pin locations, fence locations, etc, it's evident that the fence is there as a statement to those who would dare stand up to the land barons.

You cannot act like a gaint jackwagon and expect to have the welcome mat laid out. Wilk's brothers have been trying to buy Montana in more ways than this, and if we don't stop it, nobody will.

 

[jlmatthew]

Regardless of pin locations, fence locations, etc, it's evident that the fence is there as a statement to those who would dare stand up to the land barons.

You cannot act like a gaint jackwagon and expect to have the welcome mat laid out. Wilk's brothers have been trying to buy Montana in more ways than this, and if we don't stop it, nobody will.

Why are so many upset with what these guys do with their own land? They worked hard, were successful and now they are spending their money how they like on their own land. And how do you stop someone from buying private land? Not trying to be an ass, just asking a question.

 

[The Hedgehog]

http://billingsgazette.com/lifestyl...cle_2f1e5ea8-06e3-50ae-a350-deeabfb42cd4.html

 

[Ben Lamb]

Why are so many upset with what these guys do with their own land? They worked hard, were successful and now they are spending their money how they like on their own land. And how do you stop someone from buying private land? Not trying to be an ass, just asking a question.

You're right. It's their land and they can do what they want with it. When you hire a PR firm to tell everyone what great neighbors you are and how much you love Montana and Montanans, then pull this stuff, it gets folks upset.

 

[katqanna]

Kat, I asked this question on BLM's Facebook page and they said "the fence was totally constructed on private property. Private landowners have the right to fence their property."

The Unlawful Inclosures and the BLM handbook address fencing on private property.

When I spoke with Jack Jones, who dealt with the Turner (a billionaire that lost) fencing issue, BLM did not know or acknowledge the Handbook, according to Jones. He couldnt even get a copy of their own handbook from them. It took a legal case in WY to force the compliance.

It has been discussed a number of times at this forum, that environmental attorneys are very happy to litigate federal cases because their attorneys get comped for wins by the fed. The BLM is federal. I sent my documentation to PLWA and spoke with them. I may talk with one of the local attorneys here in Bozeman, but the handbook and Unlawful Inclosures, as well as the case precedence of United States v. Lawrence shows that there is application. They just have to be forced to comply with the law if they dont do it willingly.

 

[mtmuley]

Ben, what "stuff" did they pull besides fencing their land? mtmuley

 

[wingman1]

Ben, what "stuff" did they pull besides fencing their land? mtmuley

Let's start with choosing to build a non wildlife friendly fence. This is the best fence on their ranch.

 

[mtmuley]

So far, from what I can tell, no laws have been broken. Correct? mtmuley