Wildife Task force 90-10, etc.

[RobertD]

i think the amount of alleged "whining" absolutely is a little exaggerated.

definitely lots of disappointment. it's always sad to see a good thing go. unfortunately there is a lot of unnecessary vitriol spread by wyo residents towards that disappointment.

but, in buzz's defense, anybody that lives in a western state with good NR opportunity has a keen ear to NR whining.

take a look at the CPW comment board for the currently being discussed allocation changes. there are a lot of NR comments on that board that are so entitled and misinformed it can kinda make me wanna shut down all NR opportunity in Colorado and never see the face of another NR on the landscape.

It's such a matter of perspective. I roll my eyes at Wyoming guys on here *all the time* (even if I ultimately agree with their perspective). But let me hear/see someone from Florida complain about season structure or bag limit for Georgia deer and red lasers start to glow out of my eyes. (It was actually one of these instances that made me realize the value of a resident-centric model for tag allocation.)

 

[RobertD]

And I never ever thought I’d hear him support any sort of outfitter welfare set aside. Something must have really triggered him. Or maybe he got a guide license or something

Or the outfitter lobby is too powerful to get 90/10 through w/o a major concession that benefits them.

I just wonder how reg/special division is affected by a switch to 90/5/5.

 

[TOGIE]

It's such a matter of perspective. I roll my eyes at Wyoming guys on here *all the time* (even if I ultimately agree with their perspective). But let me hear/see someone from Florida complain about season structure or bag limit for Georgia deer and red lasers start to glow out of my eyes. (It was actually one of these instances that made me realize the value of a resident-centric model for tag allocation.)

yeah, the first time you hear someone say re. your state "these stupid residents don't even realize that we basically fund their game and fish so we deserve (fill in the blank)"

 

[BuzzH]

And I never ever thought I’d hear him support any sort of outfitter welfare set aside. Something must have really triggered him. Or maybe he got a guide license or something

First off, I have no guide license, outfitter license, etc...and never will. I put so much pressure on myself helping my NR friends be successful, it almost takes the fun out of it for me. I would be a complete basket case if I knew hard working clients paying good money went home without filling their tags.

What has changed is that I feel wayyyy more compelled to help Residents in Wyoming than NR's. Its pretty much that simple. Since NR opportunities have dried up in nearly every Western State, its time to stay ahead of the curve in your State or Residence.

Plus, what many don't understand is that with Region deer tags, 7250 assured full price elk tags, any unissued resident licenses in the initial draw dropping to the initial NR draw, and NR's in the same drawing as Residents in the leftover draw...asking for 90-10 isn't that big of a deal.

Even when that was explained, over and over and over again to NR's, they continued to bellyache about how Residents are just greedy, selfish, etc. when in reality, 10% NR allocations are the industry standard in the West.

Same with giving outfitters 5% of the tags, any not drawn by their clients would fall to the NR regular draw.

I don't know, I'm not cracked up about an outfitter set aside and I'm on the fence about giving in to them. But, what if Residents were to get them to agree to tossing the wilderness guide law in exchange for 90-5-5? Make repealing the Wilderness guide law part of a 90-5-5 bill...or maybe a 90-6-4?

Like I said, I'm still on the fence but what I'm hearing from Residents is they want 90% of the tags, NR's hate the wilderness guide law, and outfitters want a set-aside.

How do you recommend fixing all that? Because frankly, I'm tired of hearing all of it mainly from people sitting on their laurels doing nothing to address any of it.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

The wilderness guide law is silly, but I have to say if the elk cap goes away, I don't know if I trust the process to not net increase NR gen hunters in the areas I hunt...then the wilderness law is selfishly the only thing in my back pocket to get away from a pressure increase. Maybe I'm being paranoid.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Yes I know Brent, everything about Wyoming makes you sad.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Just my 2 cents, seems like the one instance I saw the most NR uproar was over the "big 5" changes a while back. There was genuine vitriol over that. With DEA it seems NR reactions are milder.

That makes sense. Those people have a lot of years and money invested and then to have the "rules" changed in the middle of the "game" would be frustrating for sure. But in my opinion 100% of those tags should go to residents.

 

[BuzzH]

The wilderness guide law is silly, but I have to say if the elk cap goes away, I don't know if I trust the process to not net increase NR gen hunters in the areas I hunt...then the wilderness law is selfishly the only thing in my back pocket to get away from a pressure increase. Maybe I'm being paranoid.

No, you aren't paranoid that's exactly what will happen.

Removing the cap is an end-run around raising the number of general tags for outfitters and increasing license sales for the department.

I agree with you that the only buffer in the areas I hunt will also be the wilderness guide law.

That's also the problem with making a change that seems so benign as removing the 7250 cap...its not and its going to impact a lot of other decisions down the road.

 

[WYelker]

I am pretty adamant against the any outfitter set aside and despite hearing all the complaining, some name calling and insults from NR. I am still opposed to the idea on every level. However I also want more for the residents. I absolutely do not trust lifting the cap. It will screw us in the end.

I do not want 90/5/5… But a few more years it might be worth being done with the issue. However I am hate the idea of going 90/5/5 because I know that will never be enough and in 3-5 years we will be at the table again looking for different percent.

I do feel as if the power of the outfitters has dwindled and every year it has dwindled. Like Bizz I try to help NR friends and family on hunts and figure if I can help them then there is less demand for guides etc.

In the end WY will end up at 90/10. I damn sure hope it will be a straight 90/10. But I am not sure how many of us residents have the stomach to fight 90/5/5 especially when we get hounded over wanting more opportunity in our home state…

Not to mention the move to 90/10 wuld not be a massive slap on DEA… There would still be the cap for elk, region deer tags stay the same, etc. Pronghorn would be the most affected…

 

[rogerthat]

Definitely not OTC, but can most certainly be DIY/backpacker depending on the tag

Get your game farm hunt booked @Treeshark. You can save some money that way

 

[rogerthat]

Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, NM, and Montana what are there allocations? You pointed out 1 western state Colorado which has a very generous allocations and is notorious for a mismanaged cpw.

Montana is not even close to 90-10 with all the add on programs for NRs. I think it’s more like 17% to 83%

 

[Treeshark]

Get your game farm hunt booked @Treeshark. You can save some money that way

I have never killed a big game animal on private land and would prefer to keep it that way if possible

 

[BuzzH]

Montana is not even close to 90-10 with all the add on programs for NRs. I think it’s more like 17% to 83%

Wyoming wouldn't even be close to 90-10 even if it passed...we exceed the current splits by thousands of NR tags.

The only allocations that will be 10% are the big-5 and that starts this year. Hoping that extra 10% lands me a bison permit.

Montana is about the same, NR's never get 10% of moose, sheep, goat, and bison or LE deer, pronghorn or elk tags.

Its the general tags and OTC doe/fawn cow/calf b-tag stuff that crush Montana and the entitlement programs.

 

[WildWill]

I understand that my point was 10% is closer to the average of tags allocated by western states then Colorado's 30%.

 

[TOGIE]

I understand that my point was 10% is closer to the average of tags allocated by western states then Colorado's ̶3̶0̶%̶ 35%.

35

sigh

it's 35

 

[WildWill]

35

sigh

it's 35

Man I really feel for you guys! I've hunted Colorado plenty and it is obvious how much potential is there. It could be as good or better then Wyoming for residents if managed properly.

 

[TheJason]

Even when that was explained, over and over and over again to NR's, they continued to bellyache about how Residents are just greedy, selfish, etc. when in reality, 10% NR allocations are the industry standard in the West.

Same with giving outfitters 5% of the tags, any not drawn by their clients would fall to the NR regular draw.

I don't know, I'm not cracked up about an outfitter set aside and I'm on the fence about giving in to them. But, what if Residents were to get them to agree to tossing the wilderness guide law in exchange for 90-5-5? Make repealing the Wilderness guide law part of a 90-5-5 bill...or maybe a 90-6-4?

Like I said, I'm still on the fence but what I'm hearing from Residents is they want 90% of the tags, NR's hate the wilderness guide law, and outfitters want a set-aside.

How do you recommend fixing all that? Because frankly, I'm tired of hearing all of it mainly from people sitting on their laurels doing nothing to address any of it.

Thoughts from the cheap seats, worth exactly what you paid for them.

1. Who GAF about the whiners? The day policy is made to punish whiners is a bad day.
2. 90/10 is entirely fair. I think it a the right thing to do for residents.
3. As dumb as I think the wilderness law is, why would residents want to get rid of it?
4. With respect to outfitter set asides, we all know from past experience that promotes more widespread leasing. Is this really a win for residents? Which outfitters are having schedules left open because clients cannot get tags?

 

[PrairieHunter]

Wyoming has youth only hunts and the prices for youth licenses are substantially less.

What I can't figure is why the parent feels they HAVE to also have a tag?

My nephews have hunted Wyoming on NR youths tags 100% of the time without their Dad (my brother) having a tag.

Kansas does this with youth only season, I think it can be good for parents to just focus on the kids having fun and opposed to the pressure of trying to fill 2 tags on the same hunt.

I know some guys who go there and hunt a few days with the kids as the youth season is first in September. Then the parents can bowhunt or use a muzzleloader after the youth season is over.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Or he’s just growing tired of hearing people complain, bitching and moaning, and carrying on about how poorly they are being treated by the state of Wyoming.
I am a non-resident. Everyone complaining, shut the #*^@#* up. If and when it goes to 90/10, it’s just bringing it in line with most other states. Wyoming owes you nothing.

Hahahaha, in the spirit of open and honest dialogue on HuntTalk, all you non-residents shut the #*^@ up!

 

[TheJason]

Everyone complaining, shut the #*^@#* up.

It’s a conscious choice to listen.