Wildife Task force 90-10, etc.

[RobertD]

By some folks definition.. If you are a resident of a state that charges you less to hunt than it does non-residents, you are a welfare recipient. No?

 

[BuglinDrew]

You are totally missing the point. Maybe, you don't want to see it.
When NR's fund over 75% of the G&F budget for your state, that makes you welfare recipient. Personally, I was a resident, and loved the outdoors and everything Wyoming had to offer, I'd feel like a deadbeat. If you continually want more tags and more NR money, then.............

Speaking of missing the point, how many times in this thread will it need to be stated that this “over 75%” you keep throwing around refers to license revenue and not total revenue?

I might take exception to the deadbeat comment if I wasn’t spending so much time hunting and fishing for ridiculously low prices.

 

[BrentD]

Speaking of missing the point, how many times in this thread will it need to be stated that this “over 75%” you keep throwing around refers to license revenue and not total revenue?

I might take exception to the deadbeat comment if I wasn’t spending so much time hunting and fishing for ridiculously low prices.

How many times do we have to remind you that you are having all that wonderful wildlife raised for you on "our" federal lands? You don't even begin to factor that into the equation.

 

[BuglinDrew]

How many times do we have to remind you that you are having all that wonderful wildlife raised for you on "our" federal lands? You don't even begin to factor that into the equation.

I don’t understand this argument at all. Since a percentage of the state-managed wildlife in Wyoming exists on federal land every American is owed a tag? I better call Arizona Game & Fish and let them know I’m coming desert sheep hunting this fall.

 

[shootbrownelk]

How many times do we have to remind you that you are having all that wonderful wildlife raised for you on "our" federal lands? You don't even begin to factor that into the equation.

Gee, thanks for raising all those wild creatures that Wyoming citizens own. WTF?

 

[BrentD]

Gee, thanks for raising all those wild creatures that Wyoming citizens own. WTF?

Let me help you out a little more. How rich would I be if I could raise all the cows I want on my neighbor's property rent free?

Put another way, what is the going rate you are paying per AUM for them thar elks?

 

[Shangobango]

Of course Wyoming has to do what is best for their residents. That is a no brainer.

The only thing that really bothers, or bothers me the most I should say, is the “if the tag price doubles or triples they will still all sell” sentiment.

Is everyone fine with pricing out the not so well off NR hunters out there when it comes to that?

All that I am saying is that there was a time in my life when 600 dollar elk tag would have been much more easily attainable than a 1200 dollar elk tag. That extra 600 smackers could very well add enough to the total amount of a trip to put it out of reach for some, especially if they are already scrounging every penny and cutting every corner to afford their little adventure.

Am I off base there?

I just think when hunting becomes an activity that the slightly below average income or average income person can’t afford, we have failed.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Let me help you out a little more. How rich would I be if I could raise all the cows I want on my neighbor's property rent free?

Put another way, what is the going rate you are paying per AUM for them thar elks?

Go study some more wolves Brent.

 

[BrentD]

I just think when hunting becomes an activity that the slightly below average income or average income person can’t afford, we have failed.

And there you have it. When it becomes (has become) a rich man's sport, then the public's tolerance for it will, shall we say, diminish (to put it mildly).

 

[RobertD]

Of course Wyoming has to do what is best for their residents. That is a no brainer.

The only thing that really bothers, or bothers me the most I should say, is the “if the tag price doubles or triples they will still all sell” sentiment.

Is everyone fine with pricing out the not so well off NR hunters out there when it comes to that?

All that I am saying is that there was a time in my life when 600 dollar elk tag would have been much more easily attainable than a 1200 dollar elk tag. That extra 600 smackers could very well add enough to the total amount of a trip to put it out of reach for some, especially if they are already scrounging every penny and cutting every corner to afford their little adventure.

Am I off base there?

I just think when hunting becomes an activity that the slightly below average income or average income person can’t afford, we have failed.

I don't think you're off base. And I think the sentiment comes from a good place.

Same time, if I go from Georgia to Wyoming to hunt an elk, the tag is only a portion of the expense/cost. Fluctuations in fuel prices can be as consequential as a more or less expensive tag.

If we're pricing folks out of hunting, it starts in each of our resident/home states. I feel like travel/adventure hunting is somewhat of a different thing.

 

[Shangobango]

If we're pricing folks out of hunting, it starts in each of our resident/home states. I feel like travel/adventure hunting is somewhat of a different thing.

I agree to a point.

I feel like it is all connected though. In the east, south, and mid west, as the price of owning and leasing land concentrates private access to fewer people, the public land gets overrun. This creates dissatisfaction among those that rely on the public land for opportunity. In turn some of these folks travel to find better hunting opportunities in the vast public lands of the west. Others, maybe the less fortunate or the less motivated, just throw in the towel.

I don’t think the west is going to be immune from this chain of events either, nor do I think it is the western states responsibility to make sure the displaced outdoors folks from other locales have a place to hunt.

There needs to be solutions put in place in the other regions of the country as well.

I want to see more random lottery type hunts on public land here at home. It would make for a better experience for hunters here, still provide plenty of opportunity if done thoughtfully, and add to the LDWF coffers. Try telling most people here that though, and they look at you like you have three heads.

I’d also like to see more private land/public access type initiatives in more regions of the country. Anyway I digress…

I just hope we can find balance sometime soon and find a way to protect the hunting culture.

 

[RobertD]

I agree to a point.

I feel like it is all connected though. In the east, south, and mid west, as the price of owning and leasing land concentrates private access to fewer people, the public land gets overrun. This creates dissatisfaction among those that rely on the public land for opportunity. In turn some of these folks travel to find better hunting opportunities in the vast public lands of the west. Others, maybe the less fortunate or the less motivated, just throw in the towel.

I don’t think the west is going to be immune from this chain of events either, nor do I think it is the western states responsibility to make sure the displaced outdoors folks from other locales have a place to hunt.

There needs to be solutions put in place in the other regions of the country as well.

I want to see more random lottery type hunts on public land here at home. It would make for a better experience for hunters here, still provide plenty of opportunity if done thoughtfully, and add to the LDWF coffers. Try telling most people here that though, and they look at you like you have three heads.

I’d also like to see more private land/public access type initiatives in more regions of the country. Anyway I digress…

I just hope we can find balance sometime soon and find a way to protect the hunting culture.

I agree with all of that.

I was thinking about it today. All of this push to Go West, Young Man! started sometime in the 90s when interest in "growing" big whitetail bucks started to increase in the East.

My grandfathers and their contemporaries hunted far and wide in their home areas. My mom's dad hunted coons and rabbits in Middle Georgia for decades and had permissions ranging across big swaths of land. Want to hunt on my place? I don't care. Have at it.

Now his old stomping grounds are either suburban Atlanta sprawl or somebody's deer lease.

The stories I'm told and those of which I'm juuuuust old enough to remember myself feature this constant progression of land either eaten by development or locked up so someone can try to coax a 160" whitetail out of a creek bottom once every few years. (Not knocking my own bread and butter btw, just recognizing the obvious.)

Hell. When I was a boy of ten, not long after the start of this century, I killed my first deer on a family friend's land in Illinois. At that point in time, he and his sons hunted multiple properties year after year for no more than a handshake. We used to put on deer drives all week and never push the same woods twice. (Glory days.) Ten years passed and his hunting opportunity has been reduced by about two thirds.

That's a bit of a ramble but it's a good reminder of how much we're all connected as hunters in this country, and how losing opportunity in Louisiana or Georgia puts pressure on Wyoming or Colorado. It proves how right you are: We do have to find some ways to "make a bigger pie," instead of everyone focusing like a laser beam on shooting a pronghorn outside of Laramie or crowding up OTC units in Colorado.

(Thanks are in order, I guess. Because you prodded me into conceding some things I've been mulling over for a while. We're on the same page here...)

I'm going to have enough points to draw a public land quota hunt right down the road from my old high school by next year if all things stay the same. And I'm going to blow the spot up, even if it means point creep in my own home state. I guess that'll be my small contribution to trying to harness some of the hunting publics energy and point it towards increased opportunity here at home.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

You know when your kid whines so much it finally breaks your spirit and you give them an ice cream cone so you don’t go completely insane, even though you both know it’s wrong?

I propose that WY Game and Fish should give Brent an LQ elk tag every year.

 

[Shangobango]

You know when your kid whines so much it finally breaks your spirit and you give them an ice cream cone so you don’t go completely insane, even though you both know it’s wrong?

I propose that WY Game and Fish should give Brent an LQ elk tag every year.

Make it mule deer tags and I’ll do some major earth shattering whining.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I agree to a point.

I feel like it is all connected though. In the east, south, and mid west, as the price of owning and leasing land concentrates private access to fewer people, the public land gets overrun. This creates dissatisfaction among those that rely on the public land for opportunity. In turn some of these folks travel to find better hunting opportunities in the vast public lands of the west. Others, maybe the less fortunate or the less motivated, just throw in the towel.

I don’t think the west is going to be immune from this chain of events either, nor do I think it is the western states responsibility to make sure the displaced outdoors folks from other locales have a place to hunt.

There needs to be solutions put in place in the other regions of the country as well.

I want to see more random lottery type hunts on public land here at home. It would make for a better experience for hunters here, still provide plenty of opportunity if done thoughtfully, and add to the LDWF coffers. Try telling most people here that though, and they look at you like you have three heads.

I’d also like to see more private land/public access type initiatives in more regions of the country. Anyway I digress…

I just hope we can find balance sometime soon and find a way to protect the hunting culture.

Well put. Part of the issue is WY is not responsible for slowing or reversing these trends. They are responsible for maintaining their wildlife, prioritizing resident hunter public land opportunity, and, some would argue, grow tourist revenue. The template Western states have taken or attempted to to take for accomplishing these over the last 2 years is to cut NR tags, increase NR tag costs, and legislate outfitter welfare (see WY, ID, MT, NM...CO you are next). Yes, successful conservation in WY is highly dependent on involvement from persons outside the state, so how can that support be grown without diminishing the NR hunting opportunities, which to date have served to create that support?

As has been mentioned elsewhere, Implementing mechanisms to avoid concentrating many tags from going to the same few individuals, and instead spread them out among many individuals. Transitioning away from PP and moving towards random (ex. converting PP to bonus points). Also, scrap the special draw, and the wilderness rule. Perhaps if WY made some of these changes in addition to raising NR tag prices and moving to 90/10 the net effect on the strong majority of NR hunters could be minimal.

 

[WYelker]

So I always have to chime in when people whine about cost… Seriously, it is hard to take most people serious when they show up with a $50,000 truck, a $40,000 RV, a $30,000 side by side to hunt, but then says the tag cost at a $1000 is too much. The data and stats simply do not support the idea that price increases truly effect the number of hunters. Data shared today proved that to the task force. When point fees jumped in WY the year immediately following the increase showed a slight down turn in the number of applicants. However the following year the numbers rebounded and after 2 years the numbers were following the same curve as before.

Take this even further, all western states see the same trend even when the odds decrease and cost go up.
Also consider that a lot of hunters today are building points in multi states, and sorry but cost is not a barrier in WY or other western states.

Lastly people whining about cost are about the same level as people who whine about roadless walk-in areas.

we all have limits. We have a limited resource and it is our decision what we do with that resource.

I mean how many people here whining about the cost of hunting Africa? Do you feel you can tell Africa what is acceptable for price?

 

[rwc101]

In my experience, the loss of private land access out east is attributable to suburbia and dipshit dog hunters.

 

[Shangobango]

In my experience, the loss of private land access out east is attributable to suburbia and dipshit dog hunters.

Probably depends on the area.

Not much suburbia around here. The dog hunters have dwindled since they stopped the deer hunting with dogs on the state and federal land here.

Here it is hunting clubs and individuals driving up the prices of leasing land. Hard to get old Jim to let you hunt his place when people are offering 15 bucks an acre for the hunting rights.

Lastly people whining about cost are about the same level as people who whine about roadless walk-in areas.

Tell that to the person that is fresh out of school and pinching pennies to make a hunt happen, or the blue collar folks that are scrimping and saving to make a hunt or two before they get too old to hack it.

 

[rwc101]

Probably depends on the area.

Not much suburbia around here. The dog hunters have dwindled since they stopped the deer hunting with dogs on the state and federal land here.

Here it is hunting clubs and individuals driving up the prices of leasing land. Hard to get old Jim to let you hunt his place when people are offering 15 bucks an acre for the hunting rights.



Tell that to the person that is fresh out of school and pinching pennies to make a hunt happen, or the blue collar folks that are scrimping and saving to make a hunt or two before they get too old to hack it.

Probably does depend on where you are. My experiences are limited to Virginia and North Carolina. As to the recent graduate or pensioner, I think they have ample, affordable opportunities at home or in the surrounding states.

 

[Shangobango]

I think they have ample, affordable opportunities at home or in the surrounding states.

Sigh...