Wild sheep and disease

[Deleted member 28227]

Shame to risk any deliberate or accidental setbacks to 100+ years of efforts to protect and restore native bighorn sheep populations in order to placate a micro-niche community of pack-goaters. Just saying.

You should hear what Colorado wool growers have to say about the subject

 

[Big Fin]

Did you know some of the first studies done in WY on bighorn sheep were done with the use of Pack Goats? This led to lots of research and helped the management of those bighorns....
Micro-Niche really, wow
A true communist statement, you vote for Biden? That would explain a lot.
Matt

Hey, Matt. I get that you like your goats. Anymore statements like this one and you can pack your keyboard and go elsewhere.

The science is far more against your position than it is in support of your position. Yet, those who are doing amazing work on behalf of wild sheep are now communists and by default, voters that you want to disparage, even though you have no idea who they might have voted for. And regardless of who one votes for, the science is what it is. Accept it and deal accordingly or fund better science.

Instead of hacking on everyone and demanding they change and do some educating of other users, maybe the pack goat associations should do some of their own educating of the hobby goat/sheep owners. Maybe they should work on developing science that shows that goats and sheep aren't a possible disease vector.

Right now, you are losing the debate when it is based on what science exists. Third-grade comments do nothing to benefit the cause you are advocating for.

And since you brought up the topic of political and economic systems, most see irony in your comments - externalizing costs one group imposes at the detriment of other groups is somewhere over there on the socialist/communist agenda.

You may not realize it with the passion/emotion you have for the topic, but your comments fit perfectly with Hamlet and the Queen's statement about those who protest too much.

 

[Big Fin]

Thanks for all that you do for bighorns @Oak . This thread is a good reminder I need to send money to both RMBS and WSF.

Rendezous Raffles — Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society

www.bighornsheep.org

Agreed. Buy early and buy often.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Simple question since I am not up to speed on either side of the discussion. Are pack goats illegal to use in the state of Colorado? If yes is it illegal in certain areas or the whole state?

 

[Seeleylakehunter]

Did you know some of the first studies done in WY on bighorn sheep were done with the use of Pack Goats? This led to lots of research and helped the management of those bighorns....
Micro-Niche really, wow
A true communist statement, you vote for Biden? That would explain a lot.
Matt

You been drinking a bit much today bud ?

 

[Duck-Slayer]

Hey, Matt. I get that you like your goats. Anymore statements like this one and you can pack your keyboard and go elsewhere.

The science is far more against your position than it is in support of your position. Yet, those who are doing amazing work on behalf of wild sheep are now communists and by default, voters that you want to disparage, even though you have no idea who they might have voted for. And regardless of who one votes for, the science is what it is. Accept it and deal accordingly or fund better science.

Instead of hacking on everyone and demanding they change and do some educating of other users, maybe the pack goat associations should do some of their own educating of the hobby goat/sheep owners. Maybe they should work on developing science that shows that goats and sheep aren't a possible disease vector.

Right now, you are losing the debate when it is based on what science exists. Third-grade comments do nothing to benefit the cause you are advocating for.

And since you brought up the topic of political and economic systems, most see irony in your comments - externalizing costs one group imposes at the detriment of other groups is somewhere over there on the socialist/communist agenda.

You may not realize it with the passion/emotion you have for the topic, but your comments fit perfectly with Hamlet and the Queen's statement about those who protest too much.

I am actually, I figured since those on the other side of the fence that doesn’t want to see the side I’m on standing on and will not or do not want to compromise on the subject need not read about it here from me. I will keep my posts limited or non existent here.

no where in my comments did I say those who are doing good work are communists! I simply stated that this comment was.

“Shame to risk any deliberate or accidental setbacks to 100+ years of efforts to protect and restore native bighorn sheep populations in order to placate a micro-niche community of pack-goaters. Just saying”

I also do accept the science, I have many times on this forum quoted “the science”.

I’m advocating instead of jumping to conclusions to see both sides of the conversation. And I totally agree on some stipulations to go into sheep country! But to go to straight banning pack goats is communist.....

And yes I will most likely lose this particular conversation on this particular forum.

And I’ll keep supporting the NAPGA and not the WSF.

I keep my 3rd grade comments to myself from now on
Matt

 

[Duck-Slayer]

You been drinking a bit much today bud ?

I might start lol,
Matt

Simple question since I am not up to speed on either side of the discussion. Are pack goats illegal to use in the state of Colorado? If yes is it illegal in certain areas or the whole state?

it is banned in 2 places in CO and 1 area in WY I believe. The rest of the state is open and legal.
Matt

 

[rwc101]

Sorry. Couldn't help it.

 

[JLS]

In the meantime, we can marvel at how the federal agencies I mentioned in Matt's post have conceded the risk from pack goats and have banned their use while continuing to permit thousands and thousands of domestic sheep to graze across the landscape each year.

@Duck-Slayer, maybe you should stop and read this statement a couple of times. Absolutely there are hypocrises in the decision making process. In addition, the fact pack goats were used in bighorn sheep research does not then make them exempt from regulation when it comes to disease concerns.

I understand your frustration. Bighorn sheep management is a high maintenance process for sure, and there's still a tremendous amount to learn in order to apply the best science.

I wish you well with your pack goats. I hope in your journey you can convey a more pragmatic and emotionally detached message than what you've presented thus far. You completely lost me with your attempts to assimilate these decisions with communism.

 

[Sandbrew]

I would like to add that goats are also a risk factor for other diseases beside MOVI to wild sheep as shown by this die off in AZ in early 2000s. My 2 cents why risk it?

Sandbrew

Bighorn sheep vulnerable to diseases

arizonasonoranewsservice.com

"In 2003 and 2004, the infectious keratoconjunctivitis (IKC), also known as “pink eye,” affected a population of bighorn sheep in the Silver Bell Mountains, which are located west of Tucson, Arizona. Although “pink eye” is generally not fatal, the disease is highly contagious and can be transmitted to lambs born to mothers who carry the disease.

Jim Heffelfinger, Regional Game Specialist for the Arizona Game and Fish Department, said they discovered the bighorns had been in contact with domestic goats.

“When we came across the bighorn sheep in the Silver Bell range, it became a big problem when we realized there had been contact with domestic goats,” Heffelfinger said. “Bighorns were affected for months and numerous sheep were actually blinded, some permanently.”

In addition to pink eye outbreaks, the more serious diseases to bighorn sheeps are pneumonia and sinusitis. Depending on the domestic sheep or goats that carry the disease, the strains of pneumonia and sinusitis can differ, according to Heffelfinger."

Local partnership increases healthy desert bighorn sheep populations across southeastern Arizona | Bureau of Land Management

www.blm.gov

"In October 2003, 4,800 domestic goats wandered onto state trust land near the Ironwood Forest National Monument with 400 to 500 escaping and trespassing into the monument. “Those escapees (goats) carried two diseases that infected and dramatically reduced the native desert bighorn sheep population in the monument from about 80 to 50 in a matter of months,” said AGFD Wildlife Science Coordinator Jim Heffelfinger. Because of quick action by ADBSS and other partners coordinated by the AGFD and BLM’s Tucson Field Office, the goats were removed and the remaining sheep were treated with medications."

 

[Bluffgruff]

You should hear what Colorado wool growers have to say about the subject

I've picked through their website. On the surface, they call for trying to keep domestics and bighorns apart. What are you referring to in particular?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I've picked through their website. On the surface, they call for trying to keep domestics and bighorns apart. What are you referring to in particular?

It was meant to be sarcastic... you should hear what they have to say

 

[Panda Bear]

We feel this is a serious issue and have set aside 750,000.00 for inspection, ear tags, fencing, yearly testing of all domestic animals, and compensation to the farmers for animals put down. It has also been found in moose and caribou in Alaska, which concerns us, since the 40 mile herd migrates back and forth between countries.

 

[Bluffgruff]

It was meant to be sarcastic... you should hear what they have to say

Dang, I was hoping for some intense education or some deep dive into their dirty laundry.

 

[Lilhowie83]

From Idaho's newest proclamation for moose, bighorn sheep and mountain goats.

 

[Sandbrew]

@Oak Chances we get something like this published in Colorado Sheep and Goat regs?

 

[mtnrunner260]

This should be in every states published material and at trailheads in thenwild sheep mountains.

 

[Oak]

It seems it's easy for the USFS to admit the risk domestic sheep pose to bighorn sheep when there are no active sheep allotments in the area.
Santa Fe, Carson forests closed to goats, sheep to protect bighorn sheep

 

[Rzrbk]

I haven't checked the past few years, but historically there has been a prohibition in the Fed budget on using Fed funds to research disease transmission between domesticated and wild sheep. My understanding was the sheep lease agricultural community was successful in lobbying for the language. It keeps Forest Service, BLM or others from looking into the situation. I don't know if the prohibition is still in place.

 

[Bluffgruff]

I wonder what the 300 member pack-goat lobby will do about this.