OK guys, hopefully you got the political barbs out of your system. Stay on topic of Wild Horse and Burros Act.
Wild Horse and Burro Act
- Thread starter OriginalOscar
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IMO the problem isn't with the Act itself. It provides a wide manner of management options. It's getting those management options employed! Litigation is a hurdle, but one that can be over come. Approval and funding of actions as proposed by the field offices is a larger hurdle, that IMO, should not really exist. The problem is that lack of actual "management" has the agency in a bind as the options as generally employed in the past may no longer be sufficient. Funding and approval for gathers, at a minimum, has to happen! I think removing some of the stipulations for adoption could allow the agency to not have to employ lethal population control measures. Which I personally am not against, but it doesn't play to well to the general public.
Yeah, this thread got derailed.
I did a presentation on this for my rotary club last year - all my numbers were from May 2016 and largely from memory now. Basically biologist were saying that the range in the West could handle around 26k horses/burros, but there were about 50k on the range and 50k in pens (+/-) obviously. The Act actually instructs the secretary to humanely and cost efficiently destroy excess horses beyond the rate of adoption - which isn't being done, I assume bc of litigation (I've not looked up any actually cases to confirm). adoption rates the last for 4 years have only been 2500 or so annually, yet the horses have no predators to speak of and reproduce at a rate of 18% or so. It's an exponential problem that needs to be addressed. We spend millions on these horses every year - I say open a hunt, or start slaughtering and giving the meat to those in need - win win
I did a presentation on this for my rotary club last year - all my numbers were from May 2016 and largely from memory now. Basically biologist were saying that the range in the West could handle around 26k horses/burros, but there were about 50k on the range and 50k in pens (+/-) obviously. The Act actually instructs the secretary to humanely and cost efficiently destroy excess horses beyond the rate of adoption - which isn't being done, I assume bc of litigation (I've not looked up any actually cases to confirm). adoption rates the last for 4 years have only been 2500 or so annually, yet the horses have no predators to speak of and reproduce at a rate of 18% or so. It's an exponential problem that needs to be addressed. We spend millions on these horses every year - I say open a hunt, or start slaughtering and giving the meat to those in need - win win
James Riley
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Or slaughter and leave them where they lay, returning the nutrients they took from the land back to it. Personally, I think that is a win-win but I doubt it would sell.
I once read that a single beef cow displaces 2.5 elk. I wonder how many deer, desert big horn, antelope, elk, etc. are displaced by 26k horses? I bet the cattle ranchers have those figures. Not that cattle are any better, but the data would be interesting to see.
I once read that a single beef cow displaces 2.5 elk. I wonder how many deer, desert big horn, antelope, elk, etc. are displaced by 26k horses? I bet the cattle ranchers have those figures. Not that cattle are any better, but the data would be interesting to see.
elkduds
Well-known member
Wild horses = Charismatic Megafauna. Like wolves, griz, they have a political following that advocates for their protection. Not sure which agency is charged w managing equus- BLM, USFWS? Whichever, I'll wager their reduced funding does not allow for adequate $$ to enforce laws and address the public opposition they have and will encounter when culling or hunting is proposed.
It would be nice if those that advocate the loudest for science when it comes to climate and environmental issues would show up when science says we should eradicate feral horses or that grizzlies and wolves are no longer endangered...
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
This is exactly the kind of problem that Trump could be successful in solving. If it was brought to his attention that the "wild" horse population is out of control and that reducing or entirely eliminating them is what needs to happen, he'd get it done.
They need to allow horses to be hunted just like coyotes, year around and no limit. I'd go get a couple for sure, and fill my freezer.
They need to allow horses to be hunted just like coyotes, year around and no limit. I'd go get a couple for sure, and fill my freezer.
That's right since they are not native he would just sign another EO to have them deported.
The Hedgehog
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Saw the title of the thread, was disappointed to not see a video.
onpoint
Well-known member
hey, that belongs over on the Jose thread......
James Riley
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Teewanna.
BuzzH
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Just curious how Trump would go about getting around the Act itself?
Once again, he's not an elected king and we live in a nation of laws for a reason.
James Riley
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They have more important issues on their plate. All of them that I'm aware of don't pick and choose where science applies.
I agree with that for the most part. I will add that my experience shows that prioritization of where some groups decide to pay attention to the science is heavily driven by the cash benefits of making it a priority.
James Riley
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I find that to be true when the group is a private-for-profit industry. Not so much for public interest groups. I know lots of folks like to think fighting for the Earth is a cash cow for lawyers and others, but it's not. All you have to do is go behind the scenes and see where the money goes and all the losses.
In any event, science is science until it runs into policy; then all of a sudden it's a voodoo lie. I'm pretty sure all government scientists would agree that X could be achieved if we do such and such with horses. But there is not much else they can do when there is a big fight over X which is out of their lane. I think analogizing climate change to the horse issue and trying to indict some scientists by doing so is a real stretch.
dcestnik
Member
When I was in high school someone was shooting horses in the Red Desert. Not sure if they ever caught anyone but it sounded like the were spending resources to investigate and ready to put the legal hammer down in a very serious way. My information might be dated and inaccurate since its by word of mouth but WY BLM pays a pile of money to feed and house all horses caught until either they die of old age or get adopted. Makes me wonder what non native specie management in the south would be if people romanticized feral hogs as they do with feral horses. By the same logic that we allow wild horses since they are 'native', there should be feral camels, lions and tigers...
He has a billion reasons why he's smarter than you.
I hope they get something done with the problem, and also the wolf issue in the great lakes area.
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Washington Hunter
Well-known member
How the heck do I know. I would assume by working with scientists, land managers, and others who are familiar with the issue, and getting the law changed, so that the problem can be addressed. How does anyone solve any problem? There has to be a way, we just need someone who's willing to put in the work and do it, and go against all the bunny huggers who love horses and who believe they are a native species. Look at immigration, for decades all our politicians have ignored the problem and not done a damn thing about it. Now we have Trump who's been in office 3 weeks and he's already making progress.
onpoint
Well-known member
.............
