Why fewer California elk

[Moserkr]

Stole @2rocky 's map to compare to the supposed historical range of elk. To that point, looking at the maps, theres lots of room on the West slope of the Sierra Nevada's for TULE ELK!! Pretty much the whole western front. And if @eshunt has seen the owens valley herd at 11,000' then I would make a very realistic assumption that the elk did not just inhabit the foothills of the sierra historically. More than likely there were tule elk all over the central sierras from the foothills to the peaks.

They assumed there was interbreeding too along the lines of their ranges too. Might seem like a bad thing now but to me its a way of keeping genetics moving, growing stronger. New sub species didnt arrive by inbreeding...

Current hunting range:
(Some herds not included)

Historic range:

 

[2rocky]

I appreciate your enthusiasm. Like you I've often been in the Sierra and thought it would be really cool to see a herd of elk in a mountain meadow. Then on my way home I see El Dorado Hills that would be their Winter range...or Placerville...or Auburn and think about how deer can exist in rural residential but not everyone wants their life to be like Estes Park with elk on their lawn.

Unfortunately Wildlife doesn't stay where you release it. Pronghorn released in the Sutter Buttes found their way to rice fields along Highway 5 in Willows which is 46 miles away. Earlier I posted the story of the elk they saw in Sonora. And the Deer herd is under so much pressure, Elk introduction would really drive them into more marginal habitat.

When Deer and Elk Compete​

Deer and elk are closely related species in the Deer family (Cervidae). They often inhabit similar habitat types in locations where they co-occur. They are also active during the same parts of the day, mainly in the early morning and in the evening. It is not at all uncommon to see them in close proximity, exhibiting no signs of competition and apparently coexisting peacefully. Deer are browsers. Most of the time they eat leaves, stems, twigs, and bark. Shrubs constitute about 75% of their diet, and about 25% comes from forbs (non-woody herbs). In contrast, elk tend to graze (eat grasses and forbs) whenever possible. They get 85% of their food from grazing. They often take the most rapidly growing, thus frequently the softest and most nutritious, plants. During most of the year there is no competition for food between deer and elk, because they are using different eating strategies which include different plants or different parts of the same plant. However, in winter, the peaceful coexistence scenario shifts. In winter, elk become browsers. This means that in the coldest time of the year, when food may become scarce, deer and elk compete. It is not an even battle, and it is waged very subtly. Elk are about two to three times the size of their smaller cousins, the deer. They can easily push deer off prime browsing areas, although direct aggression is exceptionally rare. In good range, in mild winters, when numbers of animals are low to moderate, the competition may not be intense. In areas where food is not abundant, in hard winters, or when animal numbers are high, competition can be severe. In such situations, it is not uncommon to see deer numbers decline. https://www.nps.gov/romo/deer_elk_compete.htm

Here is what is in the Heart of the Tule Elk historic range....

more reading...
https://www.sfgate.com/california-p...als-attack-Human-elk-conflict-is-15604327.php

 

[Moserkr]

The heart of the tule elk's historical range is forever lost. As is much of the rest of state due to humans. But theres still a ton of grass along the western sierra foothills that goes uneaten year after year. A lot of the total amount cattle get, but lots of private just lets it go. Drive South down 49 through Jackson and its all over the place. Lots of grass in the burn scars too now. High mountain meadows full of grass everywhere I hunt, nothing eats it. No cattle grazing like most other states I visit. A lot of the land is private, yes. Most people like seeing the deer out here and I think they would actually fare better with elk around. Right now deer are the main food source for an array of predators. Having the elk occupy a niche and eating food deer do not eat, except in winter, should benefit all species. As far as winter forage goes, the deer winter right below my house in terms of elevation and none are ever starving. We have mild winters here compared to the rest of the US. I was just fishing at 4000' in my boat on a 68* day at the end of January... snow doesnt even start until 5500'!!

 

[Westelker]

Thats a small herd, managed for less than 500 elk. Theres a massive tract of land, spanning hundreds of miles, between those tule herds and the rocky mtn herds up North. I live in El Dorado county and hunt the surrounding areas regularly. The national forests, and wilderness areas around Tahoe have plenty of feed for elk up high. Down towards bishop the mtns are rockier, and much steeper. Im sure there are a dozen prime areas that could be identified for reintroduction between the current elk herds of the sierras. If the owens valley herd size is managed by hunters to be under 500, theres room for probably 10,000+ more elk in the rest of the sierras. Imagine utilizing both the eastern and western fronts of the sierras. Deer migrate east and west of the divide (call it the PCT for ease of reference). Theres no reason why elk shouldnt be migrating out of the high country I hunt, down through my backyard.

Yes high sierras has lots of rocks. Thanks for the post, very informative. Just waiting for the importation of the wolves.

 

[Csutton87]

I too have been wondering this. I live in Georgetown. Walk into the Georgetown hotel and you will see an elk rack from way back taken along the Sacramento River. I Hunt a lot up towards stumpy meadows, hell hole, and Union valley. Last year I saw a wolf at stumpy, cool sure but not too excited for them being around my hunting area. I hunt primarily on Sierra pacific property, specifically sections that are gated and you must hike in. I cannot tell you how many damn cows I see during hunting season. Yes cows (moo moo cows) there’s some program that allows them to free range to my understanding. That and bears, a lot of bears. There is sooo much land and feed in this area it’s ridiculous to say that elk couldn’t thrive here. Instead we have cows. It’s ridiculous to me. I don’t know of anyone that would mind elk in the area. For anyone to say it’s a cost issue is a joke to me, the amount we spend on licenses and tags not to mention ammo background checks is a joke. (Local gun dealer has even told me they have so much in that ammo fund they don’t know how to spend it)Although California is historically horrible at handling money I just don’t see that being the issue. I would love to see elk population grow in California and would love to see it grow in my stomping grounds. I think it just takes the right person with the right contacts and money to get it going. I wish we as hunters and fisherman could actually vote on these sort of things on an individual basis.

 

[Undomesticated]

Interesting thread.

I fought a lot of fire in California, never did see an elk there, and have never been hunting in CA.

Out of all the places in North America I would have liked to see before development, California is top of the list. What a remarkable place it must have been.