Why? CA hunting licenses over time.

[Mark1970]

DFW (I still so badly want to call them DFG) publishes how many licenses are issued each year.
I decided to plot it for each year, and it sadly shows the decline of hunting in our state.

What are your thoughts on why this is happening?



Lack of hunting opportunity?
A general decline of outdoor activities in competition to being on the computer all day?
Perhaps a changing perception on the values of hunting? (hunters are "evil", or its an outdated activity)
Perhaps most of the hunters were military transplants from other states and this is just a decline in military personnel?

If we loose hunters, then hunting has less of a voice when it comes to legislation.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Grab the CA deer population numbers, and feed them into the chart, CA deer herds have for lack of a better word collapsed.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

 

[mdhunter]

View attachment 168545

That is fascinating and a fact I would not have thought about. What gives? We have deer running wild in Maryland.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

That is fascinating and a fact I would not have thought about. What gives? We have deer running wild in Maryland.

Care of @jryoung

 

[Mark1970]

Great points Wllm.
CA population has doubled since 1970, yet issued licenses has gone down by a factor of 3, so now per capita hunting has gone down by a factor of 6.

There are now "ranchettes" sprinkled across prime deer habitat that were not there before.
On the other hand we have had a great increase in pig population which I have read, now ties deer for the number one big game hunted in CA.
Thanks for that input.

 

[MarvB]

As @wllm1313 has pointed out, game population has a ton to do with it also access and lic/tag and opportunity cost. If you overlaid any of those graphs with deer pop you’d see the inverse of the trend lines. Add to that poor mgt (I’ve posted earlier before about local govt upsurping DFW recommendations) a blowup of the lion population, habitat decline, and even the sociological aspect of the state where tech trumps the outdoors when it comes to youth involvement, the decline of hunters will likely continue. Are there great places to hunt in Cali? Absolutely! Are there some pretty impressive animals taken ever year? Undoubtably! Are there more and more people living there that could give a rats azzz about it? Unfortunately yes!

 

[Wildabeest]

Not data driven by any measure, but I think the social aspect plays into it as well. CA has obviously created a “brand” that attracts people of a certain mindset and repels others. From what I’ve seen, the “hunter” types seem to be more leaving CA vs. going there.

 

[Brandon270]

Lots of good points already made. My own experiences as a california hunter who has taken on big game in my late 20's shows lack of opportunities and support is a major factor. As a kid our "hunting season" was a couple dove hunts in September and an occasional opportunistic quail hunt and that was about it. My dad deer hunted with a few other guys out of state every year but stopped by the time I was old enough to push him to take me.

Now the few guys I know who hunt big game either lease private ranches or go out of state so the lack of opportunities and support from fellow hunters just isn't there if you don't have family who is into it now.

The reduction in the deer population is frustrating because a lot of it has to do with poor management and more recently the loss of opportunity to control mountain lion populations.

One good thing that we have is the very large population of pigs. I know they are destructive and hated by many but the fact that they can be hunted all year and is an "easier" hunt than deer is a great way to introduce someone to hunting.

 

[MarvB]

Agreed @Brandon270 ... but much like everything else Cali even had to “tweak” the pig hunting. Back when I used to exist (note I didn’t say live lol) there and would occasionally deer hunt the “A” zone I’d always grab a pig tag for the off chance in running into one. Then Cali decided to “manage” their invasive non-game animal and made it that you had to buy a pack of five pig tags instead of one. Now that might be ok if you lived in Gilroy but not for the guy who was going to run down from the north and just hunt for a weekend. Then pigs became “popular” and the ranches that used to let you on because those “SOBs are tearing up my barley/wheat fields” started seeing the City folk showing up with there wallets and paying $1000/hunt to get rid of their pests. Sorry for my soap boxing but my work life having taken me there for years, it’s sure good to be gone

 

[Brandon270]

Agreed @Brandon270 ... but much like everything else Cali even had to “tweak” the pig hunting. Back when I used to exist (note I didn’t say live lol) there and would occasionally deer hunt the “A” zone I’d always grab a pig tag for the off chance in running into one. Then Cali decided to “manage” their invasive non-game animal and made it that you had to buy a pack of five pig tags instead of one. Now that might be ok if you lived in Gilroy but not for the guy who was going to run down from the north and just hunt for a weekend. Then pigs became “popular” and the ranches that used to let you on because those “SOBs are tearing up my barley/wheat fields” started seeing the City folk showing up with there wallets and paying $1000/hunt to get rid of their pests. Sorry for my soap boxing but my work life having taken me there for years, it’s sure good to be gone

I know where you're coming from, I remember my dad would buy a book of 5 pig tags for $25 20 years ago and kept them in his truck when he would come across some pigs on a customer's ranch.

It's unfortunate how people take advantage of a good opportunity to get soneone into hunting and charge so much to hunt something that is so destructive.

On a side note, anything killed in A zone on public was definitely hard earned. Two deer seasons and quite a few pig hunts has resulted in one small boar. Lots of steep dry country out there but it's close to home.

 

[jryoung]

Another component not mentioned is aging out of a big part of the hunting population and an influx of non-hunting population. Couple this with massive loss of habitat and access, and highways/freeways filled with cars, fenced in vineyards, fire suppression and logging suppression etc. etc. It's massively complex.

I like to edit the map above and highlight what happened in the 1960s

 

[Mark1970]

I think another factor which has hurt access is the landscape of legalities that make landowners liable.
The valley floors (which have the most water and good soil) of CA are almost all private. I feel it used to be easier to get permission to hunt private land of friends. Now, fear of liability and lawsuits has reduced the number of land owners that want a gun/archery yielding visitor freely roaming across their land.

 

[Blacktailbc]

People are only going to go out and eat dust, seeing no game , until they give up.

 

[Brandon270]

People are only going to go out and eat dust, seeing no game , until they give up.

The miles and elevation compiled for the pounds of meat I've gotten is a very wide ratio.

 

[Lyfter1013]

I think depending on what area of California you’re hunting there are different factors that contribute to the low Deer numbers. One thing I will say that will get a lot of push back from California hunters is I think there are a lot more deer than people realize but the terrain and the underbrush that’s overgrown from lack of controlled burns or any type of logging makes a lot of area that hold deer nearly impossible to access without spooking the deer just trying to get to these areas. This may not be true for every part of the state but I think it’s true for a lot Of the D zones in the areas I’ve hunted. Now other areas might not have that problem but I can tell you from the Amount of tracks I’ve seen in areas like this I’ve described there are a lot of deer but the terrain and amount of underbrush makes it impossible to hunt without spooking the deer. And keeps you from seeing more than 20 yards in front of you. The other problem I think this causes is that a lot Of this thick underbrush isnt what these deer want to eat and is so overgrown it is keeping the better nutritious food sources from growing and giving the deer what they need.

This is just what I’ve seen as I’ve hunted more areas of California and other states
And noticed differences between here and researching other states. I could be way off base on my assessment because this isn’t my line of work or what I studied in school but it’s what I see. And obviously there are a ton of other factors but to me this is one of the common denominator for most of the state. Now I know this doesn’t explain why the population of deer boomed in the 50s like was shown on the graph But I think the lack of forest management is common in California with all the regulations and limits put on our Forrest service and how the Forrest is managed.

 

[SO7mm]

Grab the CA deer population numbers, and feed them into the chart, CA deer herds have for lack of a better word collapsed.

This was my first thought.

 

[Mark1970]

I have read that Calfire wants to do more controlled burns, but cannot get permission to due to the conflict with air quality requirements. Here is the web link to the location that Wllm got the graph from.
They talk a bit about logging and its effects on deer. For sure, forest management is important here.

Deer Friendly - California Long-term Deer Population Trend

Long Term Trends in California's Deer Population Recent Deer News and Population Estimates Historic data and information The Long Decline The state's deer population has fallen from the peak of about 2 million around 1960 to around 475,000 (450,000 to 500,000) in 2023. The graph at right

www.deerfriendly.com

That said, I know plenty of CA hunters that only do upland and waterfowl and have no interest in deer hunting, or any big game hunting. Its not likely that those folks would be on this site though.
I also know CA hunters that hunt upland in CA, but do all their big game hunting out of state.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I think depending on what area of California you’re hunting there are different factors that contribute to the low Deer numbers. One thing I will say that will get a lot of push back from California hunters is I think there are a lot more deer than people realize but the terrain and the underbrush that’s overgrown from lack of controlled burns or any type of logging makes a lot of area that hold deer nearly impossible to access without spooking the deer just trying to get to these areas. This may not be true for every part of the state but I think it’s true for a lot Of the D zones in the areas I’ve hunted. Now other areas might not have that problem but I can tell you from the Amount of tracks I’ve seen in areas like this I’ve described there are a lot of deer but the terrain and amount of underbrush makes it impossible to hunt without spooking the deer. And keeps you from seeing more than 20 yards in front of you. The other problem I think this causes is that a lot Of this thick underbrush isnt what these deer want to eat and is so overgrown it is keeping the better nutritious food sources from growing and giving the deer what they need.

This is just what I’ve seen as I’ve hunted more areas of California and other states
And noticed differences between here and researching other states. I could be way off base on my assessment because this isn’t my line of work or what I studied in school but it’s what I see. And obviously there are a ton of other factors but to me this is one of the common denominator for most of the state. Now I know this doesn’t explain why the population of deer boomed in the 50s like was shown on the graph But I think the lack of forest management is common in California with all the regulations and limits put on our Forrest service and how the Forrest is managed.

2.1 MM to 400k (if accurate) is kinda starting to get into level of Bison IMHO.

 

[HONEYBADGER]

Hunting in California has gotten harder and harder over time so most people just give up and go elsewhere. Cali will eventually ban hunting all together....probably sooner rather than later.