Which Cartridge Has Killed The Most Elk? (Poll)

[elkduds]

I know that John Plute’s Elk shot in Colorado was the biggest for a very long time. He used a 30-40 Krag on The Dark Canyon Bull.

 

[elkduds]

A google review shows estimates of up to 10 million elk across North American the early 1800s. Regional populations were shot out as non-Native people settled farther west. Commercial hunting in the west during the last 40 years of the 19th century dropped the estimated population to around 100K elk. So perhaps 5 million elk were killed between 1860-1900. Nowadays about 100K elk are killed in the US annually. It would have been less than half that during the 1st half of the 1900s because of much lower populations of hunters and elk in the west. This would have been the era of 30-06 and 30-30 dominance.

These were some of the popular repeating rifles, in big game calibers larger than handgun calibers, in the era of massive market hunting before 1900.
Model 1876[edit]


Teddy Roosevelt with his engraved Model 1876

The Winchester Model 1876, or Centennial Model, was a heavier-framed rifle than the Models 1866 and 1873, chambered for full-powered centerfire rifle cartridges suitable for big-game hunting, rather than the handgun-sized rimfire and centerfire rounds of its predecessors.[10] While similar in design to the 1873, the 1876 was actually based on a prototype 1868 lever-action rifle that was never commercially produced by Winchester.[11]

Introduced to celebrate the American Centennial Exposition, the Model 1876 earned a reputation as a durable and powerful hunting rifle. Four versions were produced: a 22-inch (56 cm) barrel Carbine, a 26-inch (66 cm) barrel Express Rifle with a half-length magazine, a 28-inch (71 cm) barrel Sporting Rifle, and a 32-inch (81 cm) barrel Musket. Standard rifles had a blued finish while deluxe models were casehardened. Collectors identify a first model with no dust cover, a second model with a dust cover rail fastened by a screw, and a third model with an integral dust cover. Total production was 63,871[10] including 54 One of One Thousand Model 1876s and only seven of the One of One Hundred grade.[7]

Originally chambered for the new .45-75 Winchester Centennial cartridge (designed to replicate the .45-70 ballistics in a shorter case), versions in .40-60 Winchester, .45-60 Winchester and .50-95 Express followed; the '76 in the latter chambering is the only repeater known to have been in widespread use by professional buffalo hunters.[12] The Canadian North-West Mounted Police used the '76 in .45-75 as a standard long arm for many years with 750 rifles purchased for the force in 1883;[13] the Mountie-model '76 carbine was also issued to the Texas Rangers. Theodore Roosevelt used an engraved, pistol-gripped half-magazine '76 during his early hunting expeditions in the West and praised it. A '76 was also found in the possession of Apache warrior Geronimo after his surrender in 1886.[14] Former slave and first African American woman to work for the us postal service Mary Fields has also been photographed with a winchester 1876[15]

The Model 1876 toggle-link action receiver was too short to handle popular big-game cartridges, including the .45-70, and production ceased in 1897, as big-game hunters preferred the smoother Model 1886 action chambered for longer and more powerful cartridges.[10]

Model 1886[edit]

Main article: Winchester Model 1886


Winchester Model 1886

The Model 1886 continued the trend towards chambering heavier rounds, and had an all-new and considerably stronger locking-block action than the toggle-link Model 1876. It was designed by John Moses Browning, who had a long and profitable relationship with Winchester from the 1880s to the early 1900s. William Mason made some improvements to Browning's original design. In many respects the Model 1886 was a true American express rifle, as it could be chambered in the more powerful black powder cartridges of the day, such as the .45-70 Government, long a Winchester goal. The 1886 proved capable of handling not only the .45 Gov't but also .45-90 and the huge .50-110 Express "buffalo" cartridges,[16][17] and in 1903 was chambered for the smokeless high-velocity .33 WCF. In 1935, Winchester introduced a slightly modified M1886 as the Model 71, chambered for the more powerful .348 Winchester cartridge.

 

[diamond hitch]

The restocking of western Montana from Yellowstone started in the 20s or 30s but I don't think the recover occurred till after the war.

 

[elkduds]

A google review shows estimates of up to 10 million elk across North American the early 1800s. Regional populations were shot out as non-Native people settled farther west. Commercial hunting in the west during the last 40 years of the 19th century dropped the estimated population to around 100K elk. So perhaps 5 million elk were killed between 1860-1900. Nowadays about 100K elk are killed in the US annually. It would have been less than half that during the 1st half of the 1900s because of much lower populations of hunters and elk in the west. This would have been the era of 30-06 and 30-30 dominance.

These were some of the popular repeating rifles, in big game calibers larger than handgun calibers, in the era of massive market hunting before 1900.
Model 1876[edit]


Teddy Roosevelt with his engraved Model 1876

The Winchester Model 1876, or Centennial Model, was a heavier-framed rifle than the Models 1866 and 1873, chambered for full-powered centerfire rifle cartridges suitable for big-game hunting, rather than the handgun-sized rimfire and centerfire rounds of its predecessors.[10] While similar in design to the 1873, the 1876 was actually based on a prototype 1868 lever-action rifle that was never commercially produced by Winchester.[11]

Introduced to celebrate the American Centennial Exposition, the Model 1876 earned a reputation as a durable and powerful hunting rifle. Four versions were produced: a 22-inch (56 cm) barrel Carbine, a 26-inch (66 cm) barrel Express Rifle with a half-length magazine, a 28-inch (71 cm) barrel Sporting Rifle, and a 32-inch (81 cm) barrel Musket. Standard rifles had a blued finish while deluxe models were casehardened. Collectors identify a first model with no dust cover, a second model with a dust cover rail fastened by a screw, and a third model with an integral dust cover. Total production was 63,871[10] including 54 One of One Thousand Model 1876s and only seven of the One of One Hundred grade.[7]

Originally chambered for the new .45-75 Winchester Centennial cartridge (designed to replicate the .45-70 ballistics in a shorter case), versions in .40-60 Winchester, .45-60 Winchester and .50-95 Express followed; the '76 in the latter chambering is the only repeater known to have been in widespread use by professional buffalo hunters.[12] The Canadian North-West Mounted Police used the '76 in .45-75 as a standard long arm for many years with 750 rifles purchased for the force in 1883;[13] the Mountie-model '76 carbine was also issued to the Texas Rangers. Theodore Roosevelt used an engraved, pistol-gripped half-magazine '76 during his early hunting expeditions in the West and praised it. A '76 was also found in the possession of Apache warrior Geronimo after his surrender in 1886.[14] Former slave and first African American woman to work for the us postal service Mary Fields has also been photographed with a winchester 1876[15]

The Model 1876 toggle-link action receiver was too short to handle popular big-game cartridges, including the .45-70, and production ceased in 1897, as big-game hunters preferred the smoother Model 1886 action chambered for longer and more powerful cartridges.[10]

Model 1886[edit]

Main article: Winchester Model 1886


Winchester Model 1886

The Model 1886 continued the trend towards chambering heavier rounds, and had an all-new and considerably stronger locking-block action than the toggle-link Model 1876. It was designed by John Moses Browning, who had a long and profitable relationship with Winchester from the 1880s to the early 1900s. William Mason made some improvements to Browning's original design. In many respects the Model 1886 was a true American express rifle, as it could be chambered in the more powerful black powder cartridges of the day, such as the .45-70 Government, long a Winchester goal. The 1886 proved capable of handling not only the .45 Gov't but also .45-90 and the huge .50-110 Express "buffalo" cartridges,[16][17] and in 1903 was chambered for the smokeless high-velocity .33 WCF. In 1935, Winchester introduced a slightly modified M1886 as the Model 71, chambered for the more powerful .348 Winchester cartridge.

The most common single-shot breech loader of the era was the military surplus Springfield Trapdoor, in 45-70 black powder. The Army put 700,000 of them into service. It was the pre-1900 equivalent of the surplus Springfield 30-06 after 1900. Since millions more elk were killed in the 45-70 era, that looks like the leading cartridge candidate IMO.

Specifications
Production history
Service history
Springfield "Trapdoor" rifle
Type	Breech-loading rifle Single-shot rifle
Place of origin	United States
In service	1873–1892 (some were still used during the Spanish–American War and Philippine–American War)
Used by	United States Army
Wars	Indian Wars, Spanish–American War, Philippine–American War
Designer	Erskine S. Allin
Designed	1873
Manufacturer	Springfield Armory
No. built	approx. 700,000
Variants	Cavalry Carbine with 22 in (560 mm) barrel Cadet Rifle with 30 in (760 mm) barrel
Cartridge	.45-70-405

 

[antelopedundee]

Which cartridge/s has wounded the most elk?

Like was once said. The .30-.30 has killed a trainload of deer; and wounded about as many too.

 

[dirtclod Az.]

I am no expert but elk were distributed across the country, even in the east. I read there were 10 million estimated and they extirpated from most states and were reduced to less than 50,000 before the turn of the 20th century. That would preclude any of those cartridges from being involved. I'll leave it to the real history buffs to put a timeline on the wipeout of the historic elk herds, and the overlap of available cartridges and also to put into perspective the total # of elk killed to wipe out almost 10 million. Obviously, its a much higher number than that as it didn't happen overnight. And then that number - vs- how many total elk have been killed under more "modern" game management since 1900 or thereafter.

I read a book about the history of Az. when Lewis and Clark were wandering around
out this way.The book mentions Antelope,Deer and Bighorn Sheep dispersed as far
south and into Mexico.Also Wolves were spread all over the state,but they mentioned
very few if any Elk were seen or taken during that time period.Wondering when the
influx of Elk happened?Google says they were re-introduced in 1913.... 〽

 

[dirtclod Az.]

I read a book about the history of Az. when Lewis and Clark were wandering around
out this way.The book mentions Antelope,Deer and Bighorn Sheep dispersed as far
south and into Mexico.Also Wolves were spread all over the state,but they mentioned
very few if any Elk were seen or taken during that time period.Wondering when the
influx of Elk happened?Google says they were re-introduced in 1913.... 〽

Followed up and found the book stating that Elk were few and far between in Az.
in the mid-1800's
"Man and Wildlife in Arizona"-The American Exploration Period 1824-1865.
by Goode P. Davis Jr. 〽

 

[hossblur]

30-06.

Mainly because every lever action isn't 30-30. There are a pile of lever action calibers that were used.

Probably more levers killing elk than bolts.

 

[Roughwater]

I'm sure many Elk were taken with muzzleloaders between 1600-1900. It's said that muzzle loading rifles dominated the civil war even though there were some breech loading and repeating arms used. So for sure in those 300 years of early america there were likely a lot of Elk killed by muzzle loading rifles in some form. Early muzzle loaders used round balls then later went to Minie balls, many of which were used in the civil war (1860's). Muzzle loading rifles of course are still used today to take Elk so maybe they are another candidate but like other rifles they came in numerous calibers. So if caliber is the thing we're looking for the 06 or 30-30 is still pretty good choices.

 

[ImBillT]

Only three cartridges in the list...

I’d suggest that whatever centerfire cartridge over .224 had the highest ammo sales over the past hundred years is probably the one.

Unless more were killed prior to 1906.

 

[Roughwater]

Only three cartridges in the list...

I’d suggest that whatever centerfire cartridge over .224 had the highest ammo sales over the past hundred years is probably the one.

Unless more were killed prior to 1906.

/QUOTE]

It's estimated that roughly 10 million were killed before 1906 give or take.

 

[MTGomer]

Revisionist history has convinced many of you that elk were taken with rifles prior to the introduction of the 6.5 Creedmoor, but I assure you it is false....

 

[8andcounting]

folks can keep their 6.5 needmores. I’ll keep my .300 and kill elk .

 

[2rocky]

y'all are lucky Karamojo Bell was on a different continent...He'd -a- made the 7x57 de' rigeur for elk fer shure....

Bell shot 1,011[15] elephants during his career; all of them bulls apart from 28 cows. He is noted for using smaller calibre bullets[17][18] rather than the heavy recoiling, larger calibre bullets that were popular with other big game hunters.[19] Around 800 of his kills were made with Mauser 98 rifles chambered for the 7×57mm Mauser/.275 Rigby (using the 1893 pattern standard military 11.2-gram (172.8 gr) grain round-nosed full metal jacket load), which today is considered to be too small for elephants, and are no longer legal for dangerous African game; Bell preferred smaller calibers because, besides being lighter rifles to carry, they recoiled less and therefore are quicker to the second shot. Bell found that German and English military ammunition was the most reliable which also encouraged him to use the smaller calibers.[20] His favourite rifles were a bespoke Rigby-made 7×57mm Mauser with which he shot the majority of his elephants, a 'wand-like' Mannlicher–Schoenauer 6.5×54mm[11] carbine, which he abandoned due to failure of the available ammunition, a Lee–Enfield sporting rifle in .303 British and Mauser rifles chambered in .318 Westley Richards.[21] As 'the Bell Shot' involves shooting through the mass of the elephant's skull, he insisted on using military full metal jacket bullets weighing from approx 173 to 250 grains, rather than the 400+ grain soft lead bullets popular today.[12] He particularly praised a Mannlicher M1893 rifle chambered in 6.5×53mmR from George Gibbs that he used for most of his meat hunting in the Karamojo.[22] On one occasion in West Africa in the midst of a famine he killed a herd of 23 African forest buffalo using a .22 Savage Hi-Power rifle with lung shots, using the American buffalo hunter's technique of identifying the leader and then killing the rest as they milled in confusion. He disliked the double rifles considered archetypal for the African hunting of his time due to what he considered recoil so heavy as to be detrimental to accuracy.

Bell used the brain shot extensively, with his intention being to kill his quarry quickly before the herd became restless or took flight.[22] He mastered an oblique shot from the rear which was angled through the neck muscles and into the brain. This difficult shot has become known "The Bell Shot" on elephants.

 

[diamond hitch]

When I was but a ladd my father had a friend who was a government hunter out of Deerlodge. He killed everything from eagles to elk with a 257 Roberts. I think it was said that he wore out three barrels in his carreer. Volumes of elk - not likely. Just something to express the variety over time.

I am very impressed with the quality of research shown here. Well deserving of an attaboy.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Can anyone propose a method to actually determine this? I'm struggling besides interviews with old game wardens.

I imagine rifle sales data would be the best method. I would bet Winchester or Remington best selling caliber in CO for the last 40 years is probably also the modern rifle caliber to used to kill elk under modern elk hunting conditions.

The whole discussion gets kinda murky before states had hunting seasons so the first year that CO, MT, WY, and ID all had elk seasons is probably the place to start.

 

[buffybr]

Although I did kill my first elk with a .30-40 Krag, I don't think that that cartridge enjoyed a high enough popularity to be crowned the number one elk killer. Several have posted about the Hawken rifles, but those rifles were muzzle loaders and did not fire cartridges. I believe that actual cartridge rifles did not gain wide spread popularity until after the Civil War. The last half of the 19th century produced the birth of a variety of cartridge rifles, and I believe the .45-70 was the most popular. The .30-30 Win came out in 1895, just ten years earlier than the more powerful .30-06.

The .30-06 has been one of the most popular cartridges for 114 years, and it would be my pick as the cartridge that has killed the most elk.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Which cartridge/s has wounded the most elk?

Like was once said. The .30-.30 has killed a trainload of deer; and wounded about as many too.

It just has to be the .270. Just ask Hootowl

 

[hank4elk]

I took my 1st 2 with a 30-30, but all 30-06 for 40 years now.
Saw similar pole took in Bugle back in the 80's. 30-30, 30-06, 45-70,270 where top then

 

[FLS]

I’d say the 30-30 has to be near the top. People were more pragmatic and used what was available locally.
I live out in the sticks and we still have a few “county stores” around. They all keep a little ammo on the shelves. Centerfire rifle is 30/30, 30-06 and 270. It’s the same most placed I’ve ever hunted. I would wager that more big game is killed in the US with those 3 than the rest combined and has been for most of the last century. The 30-30 has been around longer than the other two so I’d say it’s probably killed more elk.