When Hunting became shooting.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
Right, because it either has to be throwing rocks in a loin cloth and moccasins or medium range nuclear weapons being legal for hunting...
Nothing in between I guess.
D
Deleted member 40728
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Sounds good to me @wllm1313 Nothing better than late season flintlock hunting. Thankfully I don’t rely on my flintlock skills to feed my family lol. It is definitely some of my favorite hunting and typically see plenty of deer. Looking forward to it. Should be fun.
No doubt, but not to the same extent. Check out any facebook group dealing with elk hunting and you find post after post of guys wounding and not recovering elk. You dont see this during rifle season. Anecdotal and all, I have was studies that suggest bow hunters wound double the number of animals that rifle hunters do.
BS. Bow hunting is a black eye on our sport and the anti's are already keying in on bow hunters.
Buzz's post is spot on.
During rifle season you see six or so hunters and 10-15 dead elk. Or, cripples laying around that need dispatched and no one knows who shot them. Go watch a shootout on the Madison, around Gardiner, Gibson Reservoir, or on the Dana Ranch when they were in BMA, and so on.
Not declaring sainthood for archers, but let’s not put lipstick on the pig either.
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Pretty negative post there, bud!
BuzzH
Well-known member
Cant really agree and cant really disagree with your assessment of bowhunting, in particular for elk.
Without slamming any bowhunters, IMO/E hunting elk with a bow is kind of a stunt. I've seen some elk die as quickly or quicker with an arrow than I have with a rifle. I've also seen things turn into complete shit with an arrow as well...as in, the worst days I've spent hunting. Many times its just a matter of an inch or two that turns things into a really bad deal.
The trouble comes in when things don't go exactly perfect. One lung, hitting big bones, liver, etc...fact is arrows just don't do the damage that rifle bullets do on hits that aren't perfect.
Another disadvantage to hunting with bows, you just don't have the ability a majority of the time for a quick follow up shot like you do with a rifle. Also don't have the ability to shoot quick if an animal is jumped that has been previously wounded, etc. In other words, a rifle hunter can clean up their mess a whole lot easier.
I know a lot of people that I consider good bow hunters, and when you get them to be honest, nearly all of them have stories about elk and arrows that don't end well. Not that rifle hunters don't have the same stories, just not as many.
I don't know that bow hunting is a black eye on the sport, but I don't disagree that many bow hunters take too many chances, don't understand shot angles, and maybe get a bit out over their skis on the shots they take. Even being as careful as you can, its not a matter of if you're going to wound and lose an elk or two or three bow hunting, just when.
Nick87
Well-known member
I wouldn't say bow hunting is a stunt as a whole. Bow hunting elk I could totally see that. I think the biggest thing is that most animals are wounded by a small amount of bowhunter at least that's my observation. Sort of like 10% of elk hunters kill 90% of the elk but opposite. Lots of guys that bowhunt aren't serious enough about it. They shoot there now a handful of times and head out to the woods. I've seen it first hand more times than I care to count. Bow hunting takes a lot of practice and a lot of discipline. A large portion of weekend warriors treat it like a midwest deer gun season shoot the bow three times, "yup I hit the foam deer target" and head to the woods. Same hunters dont have the best recovery skills either look for 15 minutes and head to the bar. I've seen it first hand so many times but it seems to be the norm for many at least in the midwest with whitetail hunters.
Starting to personally take some offense to this. I bowhunt. I take pride in trying to make the best shot possible. Have I made a bad hit? Yes. Felt horrible about it as well. But I also tracked and trailed until it was found, or until no longer possible. 15 minutes and head to the bar? Nope. You guys are making it sound like rifle hunters don't ever lose any. Hate to break it to you but yes, you do. The anti's will win every time if we argue and are divided about such subjects.
Flame away...
Flame away...
Nick87
Well-known member
There are plenty of guys who bowhunt out there who aren't what I was referencing above. I just dont know that they all take the effort that you do or I do I bowunt as well.
Sorry, but “pales in comparison” is not in any way accurate based upon my life observations. You never witnessed the Gardiner hunt in its glory days, did you?
There is no quantifiable data, so arguing with you is pointless.
I would say I think it’s a fair statement to say more of the cripples are recovered and used by humans during rifle season than archery, if there is any moral high ground to be had there.
Also, to Buzz’s point, I’ve lost an elk bow hunting. It sucks and was likely a matter of an inch or two in shot placement. I’ve gotten in plenty of heated debates with guys who think it’s okay to arrow an elk and keep on hunting. I realize it happens. The crippling just happens differently between archers and rifle hunters
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EYJONAS!
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Looks like someone didn't get to go out this weekend....
Probably no more than with a bunch of guys in Cathartts and Stormy Kromer’s packing an ‘06.
D
Deleted member 28227
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I agree... though I hear archery hunters use the term “stuck” all the time... meaning simply that they hit an animal, but didn’t recover it.
When have you ever heard a rifle hunter say that, a rifle hunter says I missed, I lost one, or I killed it.
Apparently wounding loss is such an issue with archery hunters they need a special term to mask it.
I’m sure I’ll loss some animals with my bow, hopefully I will have the guts to own it.
Very true, and some wear it as an accomplishment to have have done so.
44hunter45
Well-known member
Not wanting to shoot holes in the boat.But....
Every year in the late Idaho muzzy season I find wound loss elk cows. How is it that hunters got the idea that a ML knocks an elk on its butt?
In Idaho, ML hunters are required to use iron sights, all lead projectiles, and have an exposed percussion or musket cap. We are not using the hot rod guns places like New Mexico are.
Chuck Hawks writes this:
"54 caliber round ball from a 28" barrel will deliver over 520 Ft./lbs. of energy with a 110 grain powder charge"
The Lyman manual is right in there with 506 ft-lb from a 24 inch .54 Cal.
That is just around half of the ME of a 44 Magnum revolver.
Every year in the late Idaho muzzy season I find wound loss elk cows. How is it that hunters got the idea that a ML knocks an elk on its butt?
In Idaho, ML hunters are required to use iron sights, all lead projectiles, and have an exposed percussion or musket cap. We are not using the hot rod guns places like New Mexico are.
Chuck Hawks writes this:
"54 caliber round ball from a 28" barrel will deliver over 520 Ft./lbs. of energy with a 110 grain powder charge"
The Lyman manual is right in there with 506 ft-lb from a 24 inch .54 Cal.
That is just around half of the ME of a 44 Magnum revolver.
MO Betta
Well-known member
I've seen many more deer with limbs & jaws shot off with a rifle than I've seen wounding of any kind with a bow.
Many of us got into bow hunting for a multitude of reasons, although I do still use a rifle for various seasons and game. My father was a bowhunter, and passed it on to me.
It's much easier to get permission with some landowners if you're a bowhunter, especially the closer you get to urban areas. Had a few deny permission initially, until I clarified that I was using a bow, because they feared hunters shooting rifles on their property where their kids and grandkids play. Don't hear many stories of bowhunters shooting people. There are also a lot of conservation areas in my region that are archery only.
Some of us also enjoy the challenge of needing to get much closer.
I will say that a lot of hunters have picked up bow hunting because of longer seasons, ability to hunt during the rut in more states, and availability of tags. From my experience, we have way more bowhunters now than we did 20 years ago - and I can't say enough of them are putting in the time to be proficient.
Bows have gotten much better in the last couple decades, and more hunters can take longer shots. In the past you would only hear of people like Chuck Adams successfully killing game at 70 yards, but these longer shots are becoming much more prevalent. I can outshoot a lot of people, but I'm not going to take that long of a shot. An animal can "jump the string", take a step during flight of the arrow, etc. Just not willing to risk it.
Many of us got into bow hunting for a multitude of reasons, although I do still use a rifle for various seasons and game. My father was a bowhunter, and passed it on to me.
It's much easier to get permission with some landowners if you're a bowhunter, especially the closer you get to urban areas. Had a few deny permission initially, until I clarified that I was using a bow, because they feared hunters shooting rifles on their property where their kids and grandkids play. Don't hear many stories of bowhunters shooting people. There are also a lot of conservation areas in my region that are archery only.
Some of us also enjoy the challenge of needing to get much closer.
I will say that a lot of hunters have picked up bow hunting because of longer seasons, ability to hunt during the rut in more states, and availability of tags. From my experience, we have way more bowhunters now than we did 20 years ago - and I can't say enough of them are putting in the time to be proficient.
Bows have gotten much better in the last couple decades, and more hunters can take longer shots. In the past you would only hear of people like Chuck Adams successfully killing game at 70 yards, but these longer shots are becoming much more prevalent. I can outshoot a lot of people, but I'm not going to take that long of a shot. An animal can "jump the string", take a step during flight of the arrow, etc. Just not willing to risk it.
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