What's up with UTAH???

[schmalts]

Pat, you still looking to retire to Arkansas?

Kind of. We went through that part of the country again over Xmas and we both really liked that area. Still have 4 seasons, but without the nasty cold of the north and extreme hot of the deep south. Plus the hunting is pretty good for everything i have here already. Fishing is also top notch in the big lakes of the ozarks, and the white river's world class trout fishing.
here is a couple pictures the view of a 3 acre lot we looked at. I could handle sitting on a porch looking at this when i am old.

 

[schmalts]

OK, so i went back and read all of what the "Wisconsin whiner" had to say. Lamer than I thought it would be and a hint more crying than expected.

Glad to see i exceeded your expectations

 

[BuzzH]

Schmalts,

I think you need to quit crying...budget some $$$ and keep applying.

That said, I agree with you to a point.

The trouble I have is that people bitch about the price of licenses, but spend money like drunken sailors on all kinds of unnecessary shit.

A person could buy ONE hunting rifle and one pair of binoculars and then afford numerous non-resident application fees and non-resident licenses.

Rarely does that happen though. How many "hunters" do you know that have rangefinders, a few pairs of binoculars, a spotting scope or two, ATV, a gun-cabinent full of rifles (cant shoot but one at a time), new trucks, etc. etc. etc.

Thats just the hunting stuff...not to mention all the other crap people blow money on...cable tv, movies, $5 latte's, 300K homes, new furniture, etc. etc. etc.

Its about priorities...and IMO the people that really want to hunt out of state will do whatever it takes to make that happen. For Christ sake...you can shovel sidewalks to cover the NR licenses you have to buy in ID, NV, and soon UT.

The bottom line is, the prices are not that out-of-line...in particular if you dont hire guides...IMO.

 

[Moosie]

My guess is Schmalts has the money. He is part owner of an Airplane, Owns land, Hunts out of state and buys Big ass rings for his Wife so he can get laid...... .....Etc, etc.

I think his point is not that he can't afford it, but the average person can't. But then again, hunting out of state isn't for the Average man

 

[mtmiller]

here is a couple pictures the view of a 3 acre lot we looked at. I could handle sitting on a porch looking at this when i am old.

Looks like a good place to shoot squirrels, put out catfish lines and grow old.

 

[schmalts]

Moosie hit it on the head, i have 8k in an account set up just for hunt apps. As guys drop out i can still afford to do some of it, but my principles wont let me do it to my kid. It surprises me that i am the only one saying anything. My guess there are plenty more reading this that agree but are afraid to say anything because they think it will backfire on them somehow.
I can see the future now, Little Stan JR, is 15 and enjoys hunting small game. He telly dad, "Daddy, i want to hunt an elk this year" Papa Stan says, "Well AZ only has enough Elk for us residents to hunt every 10 years, so we will do what the eastern boys do and go to Colorado, or WY, or MT where elk are plentiful" Little Stan says " How much is it going to cost me from my savings account?"
Big Stan says " More than you have in it because i was a greedy bastard that didn't stick up for the kind of principles that would allow you to do the things i did when i was your age" Little Stan hangs his head and walks away.
Sorry, but i am surprised you don't think more about what it will be like when your kids get to be our age and wish to do some of the hunting that we common man could afford to do. If you guys are so blind to see the trend that has already been going on, and not slowing down , i pity you. You think it will stop? But then guys like Buzz say stop whining, ignoring the fact that prices are not stopping and are going up 100% faster than inflation. Greedy, all of you. I can see it from someone without a kid but not from someone that has a young boy of his own. Call me what you want, but my mind tells me all you M0Fo's will be eating your words in less than 7 years.

 

[Oak]

Little Stan would have to come up with $104 to hunt a bull elk in CO. I don't see how that is pricing him out. Think it should be cheaper?

 

[schmalts]

Little Stan would have to come up with $104 to hunt a bull elk in CO. I don't see how that is pricing him out. Think it should be cheaper?

Oak, i know your smarter than to quote todays prices for what will happen 12 years from now. I got an idea for you since your so smart. Lets say you look up what a NR tag was 15 years ago, and then figure out the percentage of increase and apply it to todays prices, both youth and non-youth. While you at it figure out what he might have to pay just to apply for tags in WY and UT, Maybe throw ID and NV in there for kicks.

 

[Big Fin]

Schmalts:

Maybe I need a drink or something. I am trying to follow the logic of your posts. I must be a dipshit, as I cannot connect the dots of what you are trying to put together here.

The only way my son, who is 16, will be priced out of hunting, even as a non-resident, is if he decides it is not a priority. If he decides to make other things (expensive women, trucks, boy toys) his priority, that is up to him. If he makes hunting a priority, he will be able to afford it on his own, even if he makes a modest income.

I sure wouldn't expect all western states to increase fees on resident hunters so they can keep non-resident fees low enough that my son could afford it, even if his behavior demonstrates that out-of-state hunting is low on his priority list.

I appreciate your concern for the next generation of hunters, as I am also concerned. I am having problems following the logic as to how increasing resident fees (to keep non-resident fees lower) is a solution to this.

Have a happy day.

P.S. If the Packers were in the playoffs today, you wouldn't be spending so much time on the computer. Being a Vikings fan, I am accustomed to having no team to cheer for in the playoffs.

 

[Oak]

Schmalts, I'm pretty sure that a non-res tag for a kid was more expensive 15 years ago in CO. The reason is because we made it a priority to not price out non-res. kids and added the youth license.

Now if you're saying that kids are going be priced out because they can't afford to apply for an elk tag in 5 different western states, you might be right. I tend to agree with Big Fin. As long as resident prices are reasonable, there's no reason to believe kids are going to be priced out.

Schmalts, when did you go on your first elk hunt?

 

[schmalts]

Bigfin, why is it so hard to follow? It's easy, prices are going up at such a great rate that if you do the math you will see that if it continues this way you kids will be SOL to hunt across any state line.
Oak, your over analyzing my little story. What age i hunted elk has nothing to do with it, because i am just one person and i am a long ways away from where elk live. I am sure there are young adults who will try to hunt elk much earlier than i did.
And BUZZ, according to Don Peay of SFW, if your state dont start doing the wealth tags like UT and spend major money on wintering ground your deer mule deer hunting is going down the toilet. What is your opinion of that?

 

[Hntnhrd]

It's not the fact that the prices are goiing up it is the rate at which the go up. If you knew that every year it would cost 10$ more in each state no big deal. But you plug along at say 5 dollars a year in Utah build a few points and then all of sudden the next year it is 10 dollars plus 65 for a hunting license you can't use. Now multiply that by 5 states. Now plug along at that amount for 3 years and then three states triple the amount you have to pay to apply.

I can afford to play this gme. Hell if I sold just one of my investment properties I could buy landowner tags for the next 20 years or so. The point is when is a persons limit on money you can throw away. I'll pay the 3000.00 for the NM sheep tag if I every draw and happily pay the 6$ to apply. If it cost me 150$ to apply I would scrap that state too. I have a limit. But I also live in a state were I can hunt deer and elk pretty much whereever I want every year. If I lived in a state that I had to draw a tag everyyear or not hunt at all I may think different.

 

[Moosie]

Schmalts, I'm with you as I stated, but your Logic is a bit off. You can't argue prices for the future. It's like asking what a new Truck will be in 15 years.. my guess somewere around $150k Min wage will be more too.

I see 2 issues. If they stopped the Price increase, more people would apply, either killing more critters and putting the hurt to the population or reducing tags that make it harder to draw anyways. So You'll still put in for 10-15 years in some states and never draw.

Schmalts, retire to a Real state

 

[schmalts]

Hnthard, we are on the same mindset. I dont have a problem at all paying a lot for a tag, but to pay that much just to apply is insane. I also do not buy lottery tickets as you probably guessed.

 

[BuzzH]

Schmalts,

How many out of state hunts did you do when you were 13-18 years old?

I say start kids out hunting the stuff the can in the states they live in.

If they like hunting then they can find a job and pay for their own NR application fees and licenses.

Thats the way it worked at my house and I never went on an out-of-state hunt until 1995.

You're really just being a whiner, the prices are not to the point that it makes it impossible for anyone to apply.

Prioritize your $$$.

For the record, I like the states that force you to buy a NR license before you apply. Keeps the tightwads from applying and the G&F agencies actually make some money to use for management.

I look at it as a donation to the sport that I enjoy...

Apparently you view it as a waste of money...good dont apply.

 

[AZ402]

Has it ever been easier to apply for out of state hunts than it is right now?

WY went to online this year along with several others states that already are (AZ, NV, UT etc...)

It cost $6 to apply for NM deer.

Yeah you have to buy a license in AZ, NV and ID.

You can use credit cards to apply in basically every western state.

I'm not saying all the western states have the perfect draw system in place. They are what they are and if you want to hunt, you have to play by that states rules.

whine on...............

 

[1_pointer]

For those that are 'upset' over this issue I need some clarification. Are you upset at the increase in tag prices or the increase in application fees?

IMO, I don't see how this issue could be solved to the satisfaction of those upset in this thread other than reciprocity. Haven't quite a few of the Midwestern states went to this system for setting deer tags? It's pretty hard for non-resident to change a state's laws/rules, especially if it costs the residents even one cent!

 

[Basser]

Why is it that anytime a debate over tag prices, availability, etc. takes place somebody has to use junior hunters as a crutch in their argument? Juniors have more opportunities to hunt and gain experience in the field than adults. Just because it costs more to travel out of state to hunt has no baring on hunter retention and will not deter kids from wanting to hunt. If a youth hunter does have the same drive to want to hunt out of state as the adults, then I guarantee they will have the same drive to work hard to come up with a way to do so.

Yeah prices are higher then they were 15 years ago, and guess what, they will be more expensive in another 15 years. Has there been a decrease in hunters? From other complaints I've heard there is more hunters now then ever and those hunters have made it a priority to make it into the field whether it's in their state of residence or not. And if it truly a priority to increase you opportunities to hunt by traveling out of your home state then you will continue to do so.

 

[camo308]

The AZ license hike is why we won't be applying there at least this year. We have 4 or 5 points for elk and even living next door in the "New Land of Liberalism" (CA) it is usually too far to use the license for anything but applying for a BP or the TP idea.

While you can try to blame inflation, that hasn't been high enough to justify the skyrocketing increases in some of these states. I think the states are battling cuts in their budgets or they are trying to limit non-resident tags and this is a way around the recent court decisions.

I guess I'll just have to move to Idaho, Wyoming or Montana and get the resident benefit. Hmmmm... I like that idea the best.

 

[AZ402]

AZ license went up by $37.75. I wouldn't let that take you out of the draw when you have 4 or 5 points.