Wet Powder?

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

Tonight I was out with the girlfriend trying to fill our doe MZ tags.

Had a doe come into the edge of my comfort zone. Got good and lined up, took my time.

When I pulled the trigger there was a long delay (probably only 1/2 sec) before the gun fired. Never had this delay before.

Then when it did fire, it had no kick, and was a lot quieter than usual. It honestly almost looked like there was a delay with the two pellets firing just based on how the smoke came out the end of the gun....


Not really sure what happened. I haven't gotten the gun wet at all. But it has been left in my truck over night with temps getting down into the single digits this week. Could that have caused the strange firing?

I'm going to head to the range tomorrow morning just to double check everything... Needless to say I clean missed the doe with how the gun acted up....


Also, I shoot a CVA optima, use pyrodex pellets (2 or 100g), 209 primers, and sabot bullets if that makes any difference...

 

[jakewood321]

Guessing the delay in the firing could've come from fowling in the breech, any debris between the primer and the powder could cause that. As for being in your truck, if you had it in the cab the heat would've warmed it up, causing it to condense in the case so it's pretty much stored wet. It can cause enough moisture inside the barrel to throw off your shot performance. If you're not planning on putting in a new load I'd try and make sure the gun never gets warm after the hunt, that's when the bad stuff happens to your powder!

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

Guessing the delay in the firing could've come from fowling in the breech, any debris between the primer and the powder could cause that. As for being in your truck, if you had it in the cab the heat would've warmed it up, causing it to condense in the case so it's pretty much stored wet. It can cause enough moisture inside the barrel to throw off your shot performance. If you're not planning on putting in a new load I'd try and make sure the gun never gets warm after the hunt, that's when the bad stuff happens to your powder!

I'll clean out the tiny primer hole just to be safe.

I suppose I could just unscrew the breech plug after every hunt and unload it that way. Probably what I should do after this little mistake...

 

[jakewood321]

I'll clean out the tiny primer hole just to be safe.

I suppose I could just unscrew the breech plug after every hunt and unload it that way. Probably what I should do after this little mistake...

It may not make a huge difference but if it makes the difference between filling the freezer or coming home empty handed it's a step I don't mind taking

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Weird indeed... I typically load mine put tape on the end of the barrel and then fire it at a critter or at a tree the last day of the season. I’ve never had any issues despite hunting in rain and snow.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

Well I went to the range this morning. First shot did the exact same thing. I found the bullet 35 yards from where I shot from... Safe to say that doe got a free pass this go around....


Shot another half dozen and they all shot normal. Going to go to the store and pick up a fresh pack of powder just to be safe...

 

[OleRedbeard]

have you ever considered using loose powder like blackhorn?
I used to use the pellets when they first came out and had the same issue with them drawing moisture(I think it may be something they use when pressing them together in the forming process or something I don't really know) We have quite a long MZ season runs pretty much from 1st Nov to 1st of Jan here with a short break in between that for a 2 week rifle season. Needless to say my muzzleloaders get much more use than anything else in everything from cold clear November rut hunts to snowy wet Dec Jan late season hunting.

 

[duckhunt]

Ive had that happen with old powder.

 

[Walkathon]

Ive had that happen with old powder.

How old ?

 

[huntnpack]

A hang-fire can be caused by a lot of things, but the quieter sound makes me lean toward degraded pyrodex (i'd guess moisture). Control what you can by making sure your route of ignition is clear and controlling moisture as people have described above. Definitely don't let your rifle get warm before taking it out in the cold, like others have warned. I almost learned that one the hard way on my personal best whitetail (gun froze solid and i had to thaw the action with my breath). Additionally, I know pellets are convenient, but I moved back to loose powders after a while. Pellets might burn at a more even rate, and aren't as compressible, but I think loose powders have more consistent ignition.

Edit: Did you make sure the breech was clear of oil before loading? Storing a muzzle-loader in an upright position after its been oiled can cause oil to settle into the breech plug/touch hole, etc. I've even heard of collected oil in breech of a rifle affecting a charge of powder.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

I guess I always used pellets just mainly because of their convenience, no other reason really...

The ignition route was clear, that part I know. I always clean out that little tiny hole with foaming cleaner and a fine needle to get all the gunk broken up, then compressed air can to clean it out.


Doubt the oil woulda been the issue here. Normally I oil it, then run one dry patch down the barrel to get excess oil out. Also I removed the plug to check the barrel before going out the first time this season.


I think everything is pointing toward either wet or old powder.


I did fill my doe tag last night with the new batch of powder, so that's a bright side at least.

 

[Muley_Stalker]

What gun to you have? If it's a CVA you should use a drill to clean on the flame channel. Just screw it by hand to cut out the carbon. I'm talking about the channel under the primer pocket. It's a couple of inches long.

Pyro pellets are known to absorb a lot of moisture. I recommend BH 209. It won't absorb moisture and it will have more power as a bonus.


edit....Oops! I see you're using an Optima. Do what I suggested. It will help.

 

[Curvebow]

You had a hangfire. As others have mentioned, a hangfire can have multiple causes. Damp powder leads the way, blocked flame path in the breech plug, oil contamination of powder and more.

Many recommend Blackhorn 209, however that powder has cost me at least 2 deer. In my Traditions Vortek Strikefire it won't ignite without a slight click-bang. Its very slight, but annoying. This is caused by the flame path I think (only a guess) being maybe too small of a diameter. The gun is cleaned religiously. Regarding 2 deer I didn't get, one was an out of state hunt. I got in on a nice buck bedded at 30 yards. The gun had been loaded 2-3 hours earlier. The gun went click - pause, lower gun and wonder wtf - and then a muted bang. I was trying to get the primer in the gun after reloading it when the buck ran off. The other situation was on a doe and I loaded the gun the night before. Late the next day I had a doe come in about 60 yards away. The gun just clicked. Reset the hammer, click again... and again. Next day at home, 3 new primers didn't ignite the Blackhorn.

After research, it turns out that the TC Bore Butter that I'e used to protect the bore for 30 years reacts with the Blackhorn and inerts it or something bad. I now use Firestar pellets and the gun goes BANG like its supposed to every time, even after being loaded for a month. But, I change the pellets IF moisture is an issue - rainy days, warm snowy days, always case the gun in a vehicle and keep it in the backseat on the floor, etc.

I'm surprised about the BH and the slight stutter before firing. The gun is only about 5 years old now. But, no more BH for this guy, at least with this gun....

 

[GlockZ]

Pyrodex loves to absorb moisture, and does it easily. 777 can do the same just not as quickly. I use 777 and place a piece of tape over the muzzle, and haven't had a problem with the powder/pellets absorbing water. The other nice thing is that I kept the same load in my muzzle loader all season and discharged it at the end of the season with no issues. And yes, my muzzle loader season was a rough one, didn't even see a deer that season.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

Pyrodex loves to absorb moisture, and does it easily. 777 can do the same just not as quickly. I use 777 and place a piece of tape over the muzzle, and haven't had a problem with the powder/pellets absorbing water. The other nice thing is that I kept the same load in my muzzle loader all season and discharged it at the end of the season with no issues. And yes, my muzzle loader season was a rough one, didn't even see a deer that season.

I'll need to test obviously, but would you anticipate any change on the point of impact going from pyrodex to 777?

 

[GlockZ]

I'll need to test obviously, but would you anticipate any change on the point of impact going from pyrodex to 777?

I thought the same at first, but no, there is no change in POI. The tape gets blown off by the air pressure created as the bullet comes thru the barrel to exit.

 

[Addicting]

With a properly set up muzzle loader BH209 is great. Most every complaint is user error not the product. Bore butter is a waste of money when you can get jackets impregnated with lube. Mine was loaded on Dec 4th and I just unloaded it tonight. Everything was perfectly fine. The gun sat in the cold the entire time.

When I ran pellets either Pryodex or 777 I had to fire it every couple days to avoid what you experienced.

Ditch the pellets and properly set up your muzzleloader for BH209 and don’t look back. No foul smell, no loss of accuracy after a few shots, no moisture issues, and 2200FPS with a 250g projectile. Now that I know better I wish I would of switched years ago. I was to set in my ways and I was missing out. That stuff has made muzzleloaders fun again.

 

[F250]

Agree with Addicting.