West coast salmon recovery

bullbugle307 · Jul 18, 2022

Salmonchaser said:
On a good silver stream you hook six to ten fish an hour. Never was a king run that good day in an day out. The Nush used to get close, the boat on a good day would manage 30 fish or so. Kings, the boat does most of the work. Guide puts the boat in the run where kings will be, once the rod is buried then the fisherman takes over.
Silvers, its about the angler. Ive had many guys in my boat who would catch 40 or 50 sliver by lunch time and they had a buddy who could only manage five or so. silvers on a fly rod is just plain fun

IMO experience with silvers, the person who could could cast the furthest almost always caught the most fish. And God knows it didn't have to be pretty, just a long double haul cast followed by the most aggressive stripping of line you could muster. Granted, we were fishing the first bay in a large lake right where it dumped into the river, so distance was key. I loved watching those flashes of silver flying behind a hot pink showgirl knowing your seconds away from getting slammed. Funnest fishing I've ever experienced by far. We used to stop fishing when our arms got tired, never from a lack of fish.

On the down side, I didn't learn finesse before distance casting, and I still wanna let loose a mean double haul even when I'm fishing drys on a small cutthroat stream.

Irrelevant · Jul 18, 2022

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/opinion/editorials/article263423478.html

I'm starting to get this same feeling. I used to be really supportive of removing the dams, but I'm just not seeing the data to support it.

Goodfish · Jul 18, 2022

Barging and trucking fish are no solution. Spend the money on fish ladders for the dams that don’t have them and upgrading to more fish friendly turbines? Is there a balance between hydroelectric power vs. miles of solar panel or wind farms that destroy upland bird habitat? I think the more serious issues are at sea.

Salmonchaser · Jul 19, 2022

neffa3 said:
Yeah, but they captured it at Chief Joe and transported it 250 river miles (1/3 of it's theoretical total journey) to Tensed ID, around many reaches that likely are no longer tolerable for salmon. I like what the tribe is doing above Chief Joe and Grande Coulee, but this was about publicity not actually restoring salmon.

I've seen pictures from the late 1800s featuring the Columbia salmon runs. If you lived along the river you would find fish almost every month. Back then nobody really thought that nets clear across the river could kill them all, or chief Joseph damn would do any damage. Nothing against Alaska, it's a magical place but if the Columbia regained its rightful place in Salmon production no one would go to Alaska for the fish, they would come to Oregon. Oregon is way cooler than Washington.

Irrelevant · Jul 19, 2022

Salmonchaser said:
Oregon is way cooler than Washington.

meh. Oregon has better hunting and fishing. But Washington has a helluva lot of WILD left, and even with the Covid hordes, it's just too damn hard to get to much of it.

Hangman Creek may have once held salmon, but it's probably the least likely in the basin to currently hold fish. If the max lethal temp is 20deg C, then it's simply too hot for too long. At times not even dropping down to 20 deg C in the early mornings.

https://apps.ecology.wa.gov/publications/documents/1103020.pdf

Now, all those little creeks that empty into lake Roosevelt should all have at least some high quality habitat.

Salmonchaser · Jul 19, 2022

neffa3 said:
meh. Oregon has better hunting and fishing. But Washington has a helluva lot of WILD left, and even with the Covid hordes, it's just too damn hard to get to much of it.
View attachment 230506

Hangman Creek may have once held salmon, but it's probably the least likely in the basin to currently hold fish. If the max lethal temp is 20deg C, then it's simply too hot for too long. At times not even dropping down to 20 deg C in the early mornings.
View attachment 230510

https://apps.ecology.wa.gov/publications/documents/1103020.pdf

Now, all those little creeks that empty into lake Roosevelt should all have at least some high quality habitat.

Some rainbows too

Irrelevant · Jul 19, 2022

Salmonchaser said:
Some rainbows too

We call those steelhead in WA!

Salmonchaser · Jul 19, 2022

neffa3 said:
We call those steelhead in WA!

That was out of Roosevelt a couple weeks ago

Mica Man · Jul 20, 2022

neffa3 said:
Yeah, but they captured it at Chief Joe and transported it 250 river miles (1/3 of it's theoretical total journey) to Tensed ID, around many reaches that likely are no longer tolerable for salmon. I like what the tribe is doing above Chief Joe and Grande Coulee, but this was about publicity not actually restoring salmon.

I thought it was an advertisement for Dodge Trucks.

BackofBeyond · Jul 20, 2022

Mica Man said:
I thought it was an advertisement for Dave Smith.

FIFY

Rainer · Jul 22, 2022

I know in British Columbia they're pushing to do a seal and sea lion cull of 100,000. I know what I say next might be a bit controversial (it would be a good topic for @Big Fin to bring up with Mr. Mahoney on a podcast). This is one issue the North American model of Conservation has failed at. Not including aquatic life and wildlife. If it did the commercial fishing industry would be shut down. Were witnessing another fisheries collapse just like in the 90's with the Atlantic Cod fishery. You can put the collapse of the salmon fishery right up beside the collapse of the bison herds. The governments are putting corporate profits ahead before everything else

Irrelevant · Aug 1, 2022

EDITORIAL: What we must do to save the Yukon River’s salmon

The salmon provide purpose and direction for a summer on the river, and it’s no exaggeration to say that village life revolves around the salmon runs.

www.adn.com

A couple phrases jumped out at me, the clear distinction of "science-only" and pirating of salmon by other countries.

Irrelevant · Aug 2, 2022

When removing dams doesn't help. I've done a fair bit of supporting work within the Nooksack basin. It's shocking to me how entrenched people are on ideas, that so far haven't shown to actually help, and how resistant they are to new ideas. The inability to recognized a failure only makes the failure worse and to the direct detriment of our salmon (in this case).

https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/article263575893.html

Let's hope this one gets better with time.

Goodfish · Aug 5, 2022

It’s called a failure in two years with no planting? What did they think was going to happen with fish that have a 3-4 year trip in the ocean? Let’s re-evaluate in 12 years. Right now one well placed net can catch the entire spawning run.

Irrelevant · Aug 5, 2022

Goodfish said:
It’s called a failure in two years with no planting? What did they think was going to happen with fish that have a 3-4 year trip in the ocean? Let’s re-evaluate in 12 years. Right now one well placed net can catch the entire spawning run.

I hope there's been some progress in 12 years. But I also hope they don't stock fish. Nothing good ever comes from that watering down of the gene pool.

Irrelevant · Aug 5, 2022

neffa3 said:
EDITORIAL: What we must do to save the Yukon River’s salmon

The salmon provide purpose and direction for a summer on the river, and it’s no exaggeration to say that village life revolves around the salmon runs.

www.adn.com

A couple phrases jumped out at me, the clear distinction of "science-only" and pirating of salmon by other countries.

A rebuttal to the above editorial

OPINION: On king salmon, a clash of culture and science

In Alaska, our constitution spells out the obligation to manage fish stocks for the benefit of the people - not a particular subset of people.

www.adn.com

Goodfish · Aug 5, 2022

neffa3 said:
A rebuttal to the above editorial

OPINION: On king salmon, a clash of culture and science

In Alaska, our constitution spells out the obligation to manage fish stocks for the benefit of the people - not a particular subset of people.

www.adn.com

The rebuttal is spot on! The trawlers have been lying and buying influence for 30+ years. I saw it in person in the late 80‘s killing kings and halibut in huge numbers and dumped overboard. The people have to stand up against the big business filet-o fish rigs. Pot fishing and long lining, is sustainable—not dragging.

Goodfish · Aug 5, 2022

neffa3 said:
I hope there's been some progress in 12 years. But I also hope they don't stock fish. Nothing good ever comes from that watering down of the gene pool.

The main problem is the math. Without help a 1-2% return rate takes many decades to show a lot of improvement. With due respect to Steven Wright and 42.7 % of all statistics being made up on the spot, their 30% run improvement prediction is anticlimactic if we are talking about 10 returning fish improving to 13 returning fish. I am in favor of in-situ hatcheries using native stock to improve those odds and get the levels going to where they have a better chance. The Elwha tribe I believe ran one on Morse Creek in Port Angeles during the dam removal project.