Well, here it goes.

[drahthaar]

http://www.flatheadbeacon.com/articles/article/public_lands_trapping_ban_initiative_advances/37853/


Been wondering where this was. I bet they get the signatures this time. This is very worrisome.

What do you say, does it pass or not, if/when they get it on the ballot?

I bet it passes, and I hope I am flat wrong.

 

[dustinf]

Interesting how they fit in the wolf comment at the end.

 

[Sytes]

I would not support this without a doubt. it is way too big and dramatic. with that said, one of the driving forces behind this will be pet canines getting caught in these traps. on this note I fully empathize with their pissed off attitude.I too will be very pissed off if it ever happens to my dogs.

this alone will be a large driving factor or whether this gets on the ballot and whether it passes. I know many here will disagree with me though if a ballot was introduced requiring trappers to mark their traps and require traps to be a couple hundred yards away from any trails... I would sign such an initiative in a heartbeat.

back on note though, this is way too massive... and will hopefully be the reason it fails.

 

[mtmuley]

I have an uneasy feeling this will pass this time. If it does, they will be on to another issue that concerns them in the outdoor world. I can't for the life of me figure out why some hunters support the idea behind this bill. mtmuley

 

[Nameless Range]

I have always loved books on trappers, Frank Bird Linderman's "Montana Adventure" or Bud Moore's "The Lochsa Story" fill me with wonder and sometimes make me wish I was borne 150 years earlier, but I'm not. I would not doubt if this passes. If those gathering signatures came to my door, I would not sign, and if it were on the ballot, I'd vote no. Not necessarily because I think it is a bad idea, but because I'm kind of on the fence and it would effect people I love who do trap.

Trapping is not hunting. Saying that people who hunt should oppose this bill is like saying because I own guns I should join the NRA. I have two primary concerns with trapping:

1. The ethics of trapping are not nearly as coherent as those of hunting ungulates

2.The number of trapper/forest user conflicts will do nothing but rise as use increases and access decreases. Which in the end will favor the forest user.

As to 1, I find it difficult to justify trapping in light of what we consider ethical when it comes to hunting big critters. If what is/isn't ethical in hunting is grounded in animal suffering(and I believe it is) then there are contradictions in what we would find appalling when it comes to ungulates (for example: snaring an elk) and what is perfectly reasonable for a bobcat, in spite of a bobcat having a higher neurological function, and thus a higher capability of experiencing what humans talk about when we talk about suffering. I am well aware that trapping is not the evil-bloody-pawed-screaming event that Footloose MT portrays it as. But I lump the emotion of fear into the category of suffering when it comes to sentient creatures, and freezing to death or drowning also exceed my personal threshold on what is an acceptable amount of suffering involved in destroying an animal life.
Additionally, even though skilled trappers usually catch the animal they are targeting, there are non-target casualties, many of which go un reported and are a damn shame. But then again, why wouldn't a trapper not report non-target animal casualties in light of the possibility of his/her lifestyle being voted away?

As to 2, the argument goes to the forest user. It would be fair to say that in the same way wolf lovers are irrational about wolf hunting because wolves look like their dogs at home, a significant amount of passion against trapping is borne from pets being caught in traps. I do not shed-hunt certain gulches around my home with my dog because I know there are traps in them, but from utilitarian point of view, trappers take up a lot of real estate and there are probably not as many of them as there are people wanting a place to let there dogs roam free. If you are one of those people who thinks dogs should never be more than 10 feet from their owner-even in the woods- then I feel sorry for your dogs.

Combine the forest user/trapper conflict with the perceived shaky-ethical-ground that trapping is on already, and I think the days of trapping on public lands may be over.

 

[Rat Fink]

Get ready to see a lot of accidental trapping of domestic dogs being in the media. I support trappers and their right to trap on public lands.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I support trappers and their right to trap on public lands.

Me too. If people think footloose won't come after hunting if they get this, then they haven't been paying attention. We need to stand united on this one.

 

[Ben Long]

It's not easy to get enough signatures to get an issue like this on the ballot. Basically, they have to raise money to hire signature gatherers. If they do, then they might be able to win. But it would be an easy measure to defeat if pro-trapper side can get organized. But the trappers may be in for a rude surprise if they take it too lightly. Either this year or another.

 

[drahthaar]

Me too. If people think footloose won't come after hunting if they get this, then they haven't been paying attention. We need to stand united on this one.

This.

If this one goes, it passes. The houndsmen will be next. Then the archers. Don't kid yourself.

It would be very easy to take areas of high winter rec. use and make them illegal to trap. But to make it all encompassing is a tragedy.

To think there isn't room for trapping on public land is ignorant and short-sighted.

 

[mtmuley]

Me too. If people think footloose won't come after hunting if they get this, then they haven't been paying attention. We need to stand united on this one.

Yep, I've been saying this since I learned of the agenda over at footloose. They won't be satisfied with trapping alone. Something will be next. We need to worry about footloose. mtmuley

 

[LopeHunter]

I support biologists being active in decisions on wildlife management. They deserve our best efforts to manage the populations so are healthy. lf enough predators die of old age or disease or other predators, fine. Otherwise, predator control methods are needed.

Some methods are faster, more targeted, less likely result in an injured animal, faster and cost the State less. As for bobcat vs. elk comparison, they are both animals and to date there have been no recorded instances of poems being written, CPR being performed or any other activity I would expect if they could reason as I do.

 

[shoots-straight]

I would not support this without a doubt. it is way too big and dramatic. with that said, one of the driving forces behind this will be pet canines getting caught in these traps. on this note I fully empathize with their pissed off attitude.I too will be very pissed off if it ever happens to my dogs.

this alone will be a large driving factor or whether this gets on the ballot and whether it passes. I know many here will disagree with me though if a ballot was introduced requiring trappers to mark their traps and require traps to be a couple hundred yards away from any trails... I would sign such an initiative in a heartbeat.

back on note though, this is way too massive... and will hopefully be the reason it fails.

Sytes, you keep your dog on your property and don't let them run wild you'll have no problem keeping them out of a trap. You have a higher probability of having them ran over or shot by landowners.It just makes sense that if you value your dog so much you keep him safe. Very few trappers are around public trails and bridges these days, so if that's what worries you you'll be OK.

As for marking traps, thats totally ridiculous. You might as well post a sign that says "Hey footloose extremist, there's a trap buried here for you to steal" or" Hey poacher, you might find a $700 bobcat hung up in a trap over here"

Most trappers are done now except for a few that are water trapping. Coyotes, and fox are rubbing, Wolf trapping ended, and there's a little coon trapping, but that can be done easily enough so as not to catch dogs. If dogs end up in the press, I'd be very leery of that right now. Footloose will stoop to anything to achieve their agenda. Their extremists in every sense of the word.

If your a bird hunter, a big game hunters, or even a rancher, you should support trappers in this fight. How many bird eggs will survive the onslaught of raccoons, fox, coyotes, and skunks if there's not any trappers?

How will the wolf population be controlled by hunting alone?
There are many reasons to support trapping even if your not educated on what it really is.

 

[Sytes]

http://m.helenair.com/news/local/fw...11e2-9738-001a4bcf887a.html?mobile_touch=true

This is an interesting article on this topic.

Again, this initiative, if advanced is not something I would support however, 200 yards away from trails, roads, etc... I would favor very much. Marking the trap location and theft... ok, fair enough. I support trapping. I also support others aside from trappers enjoying the outdoors. Dogs, hiking, camping should not have to fear their dog getting caught up in one. Keep them a reasonable distance from recreational activity and there would be a lot less support for such initiatives.
I personally knew of the couple in Eureka whose dog got caught in a trap. I may not agree with their considerations and comments though I certainly can empathize with their frustration and would be as pissed if not more so had it been one of mine.
As for keeping my dogs in my yard... really? (Edit added: initially I took the ~keep my dogs in my yard~ as a bit of sarcasm though maybe you believe my dogs are free to roam at home. They are secured in a fenced pasture. My comment is related to recreational activities with them.)

 

[shoots-straight]

http://m.helenair.com/news/local/fw...11e2-9738-001a4bcf887a.html?mobile_touch=true

This is an interesting article on this topic.

Again, this initiative, if advanced is not something I would support however, 200 yards away from trails, roads, etc... I would favor very much. Marking the trap location and theft... ok, fair enough. I support trapping. I also support others aside from trappers enjoying the outdoors. Dogs, hiking, camping should not have to fear their dog getting caught up in one. Keep them a reasonable distance from recreational activity and there would be a lot less support for such initiatives.
I personally knew of the couple in Eureka whose dog got caught in a trap. I may not agree with their considerations and comments though I certainly can empathize with their frustration and would be as pissed if not more so had it been one of mine.
As for keeping my dogs in my yard... really? (Edit added: initially I took the ~keep my dogs in my yard~ as a bit of sarcasm though maybe you believe my dogs are free to roam at home. They are secured in a fenced pasture. My comment is related to recreational activities with them.)

Like I said, "If you keep your dogs on your property then you have nothing to fear.

I believe that proposal was adopted and the 300 feet exclusion was put into effect in those heavily used areas. Also the trappers themselves vacated the Como lake recreation area to keep pets safe. How much more do you think is necessary?

Now that dogs are getting shot by wolf hunters is it reasonable to keep wolf hunters away from roads and trails too? Coyote hunters? Restrictions are part of the game, and the trappers are working on that.

Most of the dogs caught where trespassing on private lands. The public land trappers are usually farther from these areas. There are exceptions though. All it takes is one bad apple.

Glad you won't support it.

 

[theat]

I am fairly new to trapping (3 years), but I also take my lab with me onto public lands hiking, shed hunting, and trapping as well.

Telling other recreationalists that they shouldn't take their dogs onto public lands for 4 months of the year is a loosing position for trappers. That just makes us sound greedy and dangerous.

My dog got into an illegal wolf snare last year and luckily unlike many dog owners I have taught him to stay within eye sight of me. I was able to get him out and reported the snares and illegal bait site to the local game warden. This set was 20 yards from a popular cross country ski trail near a small town.

It seems to me that the proliferation of wolves has brought out a lot of legal and illegal trappers that either don't know or care to do it the right way. I wouldn't call many of these guys "trappers" and I am not sure how to police the ranks when they don't really care if there continues to be a legal trapping season or not.

I primarily trap public lands and I take great care to place my traps where no one else or their dog is likely to go. I go well beyond the recommended distances from roads/trails and often cross rivers/creeks to discourage others from following my tracks.

To decrease the likelihood of more bad press and the outlawing of trapping, I would support more high recreation area closures as well as further setbacks.

I love trapping and believe it makes me a better outdoorsman, but I also understand that there are many out there that are willing to do whatever it takes to get it shut down

 

[Frenchy]

Like I said, "If you keep your dogs on your property then you have nothing to fear.

Sorry shoots, but I can't help but take offence to this remark. Are me and my dog not welcome on public lands. I'm not one that would support a trapping ban on public lands, but I also feel the sentiment in your statement is what will push people to sign the petition.

I run around the mountains A LOT! and I usually have my dogs along for the ride. I'm also one that doesn't stick to trails very well. I explore every little nook and cranny I can. That being said, I've attended the workshops the local trappers put on to show you how to remove a trap.

But to somehow suggest that I should just stay home and all will be okay is very narrow minded, and diminishes every other argument you have on the topic.

just saying

 

[RUT JUNKEY]

Don't we all "assume" the risk when we head into the woods with our dogs? I realize that there are tons of guys who could care less and don't tend to their traps like they should. .those are the ones that give trappers a bad name. I trap here and there just as another way to spend time in the woods and if I make a little cash on the furs thats a bonus. I'm sure its different here, but, we all take those chances when on public ground either hunting, hiking, or whatever. . .the danger is there if its a public place thats just common sense. 10 years ago my very large German shepard who roams my crrek bottoms and pastures daily, came up missing. We looked for him everywhere and I knew something was wrong. . .8 days later he shows up at the pound all but dead. . .he had been caught in a trap set illegally on private property and the people were afraid to approach him or just didn't check their traps. . .he recovered ( lost a few toes) this is why I see both sides of it. Just my experience

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Don't we all "assume" the risk when we head into the woods with our dogs? I realize that there are tons of guys who could care less and don't tend to their traps like they should. .those are the ones that give trappers a bad name. I trap here and there just as another way to spend time in the woods and if I make a little cash on the furs thats a bonus. I'm sure its different here, but, we all take those chances when on public ground either hunting, hiking, or whatever. . .the danger is there if its a public place thats just common sense. 10 years ago my very large German shepard who roams my crrek bottoms and pastures daily, came up missing. We looked for him everywhere and I knew something was wrong. . .8 days later he shows up at the pound all but dead. . .he had been caught in a trap set illegally on private property and the people were afraid to approach him or just didn't check their traps. . .he recovered ( lost a few toes) this is why I see both sides of it. Just my experience

***So what was your dog doing out roaming on other people's property and you didn't have any idea where he was? A dog is a dog and will go anywhere depending on certain circumstances whether you think he's trained to stay on your property or not. You were very lucky you got him back because if he was on private property they could just as easily shot him and left him to rot right where he shouldn't have been in the first place! My pointer is never out unless I'm with him and he has an ecollar on just in case he gets out too far and I lose sight of him for more than several minutes. Then the ecollar is activated and it will promptly get him back within sight.

 

[shoots-straight]

Sorry shoots, but I can't help but take offence to this remark. Are me and my dog not welcome on public lands. I'm not one that would support a trapping ban on public lands, but I also feel the sentiment in your statement is what will push people to sign the petition.

I run around the mountains A LOT! and I usually have my dogs along for the ride. I'm also one that doesn't stick to trails very well. I explore every little nook and cranny I can. That being said, I've attended the workshops the local trappers put on to show you how to remove a trap.

But to somehow suggest that I should just stay home and all will be okay is very narrow minded, and diminishes every other argument you have on the topic.

just saying

I guess my mind was thinking about a person letting their dogs out at night to run free. (Many do)
I didn't mean your dogs are not welcome on our public lands. As long as their under voice control I have no problems.. I've run many a cat with hounds so getty up.

 

[RUT JUNKEY]

***So what was your dog doing out roaming on other people's property and you didn't have any idea where he was? A dog is a dog and will go anywhere depending on certain circumstances whether you think he's trained to stay on your property or not. You were very lucky you got him back because if he was on private property they could just as easily shot him and left him to rot right where he shouldn't have been in the first place! My pointer is never out unless I'm with him and he has an ecollar on just in case he gets out too far and I lose sight of him for more than several minutes. Then the ecollar is activated and it will promptly get him back within sight.

heres the problem. . . .the private property was MINE. Like I said, its obviously different here. . . In the country, on farms, etc you will rarely see a dog chained up or whatever. . not saying its right or wrong just saying its a chance everyone takes. Funny though, If I shot everybody I have caught trespassing on MY property for various reasons (hunting, mushrooms, etc). . .I'd have one hell of a pile.