welfare ranching

[quiensabe]

Where do i sign up ? I ranch in NM and have a forest alotment. I pay for grazing,water use,repair of fences,and all costs on this alotment and dont see any one else paying any thing.they tell me the alotment is over grazed and I have not had cattle on it in two years, but i keep water on it for the game.maybe when it will rain here i can put some on,but i pay for the whole amount per aum every year so they cant take it away from me.

 

[quail hunter]

Who knows,
I'm kinda interested in the answer too.
According to some on here you should be getting paid for having a ranch, might be a good Christmas for you when you get your answer.
Good luck to you and I hope you have that ranch forever.....
So, do you have any game birds on that ranch?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-28-2003 17:33: Message edited by: quail hunter ]</font>

 

[quiensabe]

Wish I did have some birds, we are at 7500 feet and dont have any birds, but some day with with the tanks we have built , maybe we could have some some .the sun flowers that we have this year , could be great this year for dove!

 

[quiensabe]

Wish I did have some birds, we are at 7500 feet and dont have any birds, but some day with with the tanks we have built , maybe we could have some some .the sun flowers that we have this year , could be great this year for dove!

 

[ELKCHSR]

There are multitides of plants that can be put in at that elevation that would do OK in the drier climes. You may check into them on the internet, it would help to start with the topic of xeroscape...that is the term used for little to no water type plants...
1 Pointer may be able to help also, it will take a long time to get these plants established, but when they are, they should take over, just be careful not to bring in undesirables...

 

[JoseCuervo]

Quiensabe,

You raise an interesting question, and hopefully it does not require too much personal financial information, as that is not my intent. I just would like to understand the economics of your decision and actions.

As I see it, you have two options. Option 1 - Keep Paying and Option 2 Quit Paying

It appears you have chosen Option 1 - Keep Paying. I will assume that you are rational and are trying to make a financial return on your money, capital, and time. Can you tell me if the reason you keep paying the AUM, even though you are prohibited from grazing due to the over grazing state that it is currently in, is because you have done the economic analysis, and determined that the Future Value of running cattle on the alottment is greater than the Present Value of the lease payment, and other required expenses?

Where does this extra "value" come from? If you can't use it to put lbs. on the cattle, why pay it? Does the fact you have the "leased acres" make your base ranch more valuable? Is that where the extra "value" comes from? Or, when you do get to graze the land again, does the below market costs of grazing make it worthwhile to pay for years when you can't? Or, do you get to apply for a "disaster aid" package for drought reasons, based on having the lease?

What happens if you choose Option 2 Quit Paying? Why not quit paying for something you can't use? I run my cattle on private lands, and they seem to enjoy the grass we grow.

Again, I am just trying to understand the economics of your decision, assuming you make rational economic decisions. I don't really care to ask how many cattle you have, nor how many acres (I was taught a long time ago that those questions are the same as asking how much money you make.)

 

[quiensabe]

elkgunner,
I have alot of deeded land and now have only 6000 arceas of forest sold 102,000 of forest 2 years ago,because it was getting to hard to work with them.grazing state is due to lack rain,even on deeded lands we have cut numbers.some parts have had rain and others not. ican lease deeded land for 10.00 a head per month and they check waters,salt and do all repairs. forest lands we have to keep up the waters witch are suplyed by deeded lands, fix fences and all other repairs.we have had this alotment for 30 years and it is used only as to give a rest to are deeded lands differnt times of the year.we get no disaster aid on this alotment and never will because you have feed or you dont.we sold the big alotment because it could not work with out puting more money then it would perduce.we can not work on roads,windmills,tanks or anything else with out a nepa study done and they have been working on that for 10 years .so you say why, well this alotment that we have will do no one any good with out water that we can put there for the cattle and game. the forest can not drill water wells on it because they can not own water rights and put them to use.we will see in the future if and whene the water laws will be tested for them to have them or not!you can take non use on a alotment for 3 years and after that you stock it or lose it.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Quiensabe,

Thanks for the the post, and even more important, thanks for the education.

And water rights up here also driving behaviours and success/failures.

Best of luck on the rest of the summer, and again, thanks for the education.

 

[1_pointer]

Quiensabe- Wasn't the no-use term on allotments just extended to five years? Sounds like you are facing many of the same problems we are having in UT, no water. It was so bad in western UT that in some areas the cheatgrass didn't even grow.

 

[JoseCuervo]

1-Pointer,
What happens to the seed? Did it try to germinate, and is now ruined, or did it stay dormant?

 

[ELKCHSR]

???Cheat grass won't even grow??? That is tough!!!

 

[mtmiller]

Tyler, I think the no-use term is still at 3 years, but from what I have heard, it will be extended to 5 years soon.

 

[1_pointer]

EG- Some of both. Part of that area still has no vegetation on it. That's a big problem with cheatgrass, the yearly variability of production is HUGE!

MT- Thanks. I remember the TNC mentioning that they were going to hold on to some of their allotments because of the extension, but didn't know when it took effect.