Welcome To "North Texas"

[katqanna]

Postcards From The "Brink" - Welcome To "North Texas"

For any that are interested, the last (May 29th) and next (June 12th) EQC meetings dealing with the Federal Land Carpetbag Grab were and will be held by phone. 4 members of the EQC SJ15 Work Group dealing with a Federal Land transfer to the State participated in the conference call: Sen. Jennifer Fielder, Sen. Bradley Hamlett, Rep. Ed Lieser and Rep. Kerry White.

The discussion focused primarily on creating a draft report, which will be reviewed at the June 12th meeting, to be finalized and presented to the full EQC in Aug. The main items discussed were making this Federal Lands Work Group a permanent group, options being a stand alone group from the EQC and another being a separate committee. They decided on 8 members being from the EQC as voting members and 8 members being advisory, consisting of members of the Public, but their idea of the "Public" are County Commissioners. On top of that Sen. Jennifer Fielder wants the members and advisers chosen, to be from counties that have 40% or more Federal Public lands to heavily influence the process.

They also wanted to include compensation for the members. If this is expanded to a stand alone or separate committee, this could possibly include a legislative attorney and assistant, which would add an additional $100,000 to the cost the adviser stated. The adviser participating on the call also stated the Work Group has cost a fair amount of money already.

Sen. Hamlett said that this Federal Land Grab was, "a slow moving freight train, gaining momentum, in the end, the public is going to push this."

 

[Nemont]

I understand the issue but I think you are a little unhinged.

Nemont

 

[BigHornRam]

I understand the issue but I think you are a little unhinged.

Nemont

A little?

 

[WV Hunter]

She hasn't mentioned the NRA or gun nuts yet so she's still cool

 

[Nameless Range]

I enjoy your posts Kat, and appreciate your effort.

It is quite interesting how more conservative Americans will scream bloody murder when their Gun Rights are perceived to be infringed upon, saying that small steps toward gun control will ultimately lead to full gun control. As if the slightest erosion of what we have now, will snowball and culminate in unwanted outcomes. Like a pinhole in a dam. Perhaps it is warranted.

There has to be a name for this type of thinking - Culminating Erosion?

Yet, when public lands advocates engage in a similar logic regarding their hunting and access rights, they are often mocked by that demographic, yet they are using identical logic with different premises. As if small steps towards privatization and the reduction of influence hunters have on public lands and hunting policy issues are not erosions to be concerned about. I would disagree.

We in Montana have ample evidence in surrounding states that those erosions do culminate in unwanted outcomes.

Oak recently posted something on another thread that I think is quite relevant to the issue of fencing off game with hunter's dollars, which Kat has been engaged in and posted on recently.

Some day when I have more time I will sit down and synthesize the series of events that took place over the course of 20 years to get us to where we are at today. But the short answer is that the ranching/agriculture interests in the state wield far more influence than hunters, because hunters are apathetic and disengaged from the process.

Replace "ranching/agriculture" in Oak's post with "corporate/extractive interests", and the result is the incredibly stupid, fiscally irresponsible, public trust-slap-in-the-face that is this discussion of transferring our lands into the possession of those who value short term monetary gain over ideals established by visionaries over 100 years ago that have turned out to provide incredible value - both economically and culturally.

I appreciate the passion.

 

[Nemont]

Nameless,

That is all fine and dandy but if the basis of the argument is that hunters are apathetic I highly doubt posting cartoons is going to get more hunters engaged in protecting public lands from being sold off.

If farmers and ranchers have influence that isn't anybody's fault except those who are not engaged. The right wing and farmers and ranchers are not doing anything that hunters could also do but choose not to.

Passion is a great thing but being over the top turns more people off then it turns people on.

Nemont

 

[katqanna]

I understand the issue but I think you are a little unhinged.

Nemont

Frick Nemont, after finding out what was going on with the elk brucellosis issue about a year and 1/2 ago, I pulled out my makita, unscrewed the other two hinges and removed the door altogether. It was getting in my way.

Here is a link to the American Lands Council organization member list that is driving a lot of this with the Fed Land grab. You will see who they show as members. Take a good look at how many counties from many western states are listed as members. In the Bronze member section you will see a banner for Citizens For Balanced Use, Kerry Whites group and one of the representatives who is on the EQC fed land working group trying to get this in Montana, as well as one who was going down to assist Bundy.

Also on the list from Montana is Paul C. Fielder, Sen. Jennifer Fielder's husband, who is chairing this fed land grab work group and invited these other state speakers to present at the earlier EQC meeting after she had gone to Utah and spoke with them there at a conference.

Montana Madison County Commissioner Dan Happel is on the list. Now I dont know all the Montana residents by name, nor all the County Commissioners or even all the reps and senators, so there could be more people from Montana on that list and I dont think the list is up to date.

Here is a page from the Gallatin County Republicans site, where they were hosting Ken Ivory and the ALC in Jan 2014 - Whose Property Is It? Take a look at the sponsors of the event - ALC is one of them.

Jennifer Fielder also brought in Ken Ivory/ALC to her county of Sanders for a presentation. She is also on the Sanders Natural Resource Council and Ken Ivory and this movement are all over SNRC facebook page.

Ravalli County Commissioner Suzy Foss wanted their county to join the American Lands Council and said their were private donors that would help cover part of the $5000 cost. I couldnt get through to the finance department of Ravalli County to find out if they have joined.

These are just a few of the bits I have been piecing together.

 

[HSi-ESi]

At least Suzy Foss won't be around after her term is completed - she was soundly defeated in the primary this week.

It is amazing to me that this kind of stuff even gets a foot-hold. Thanks for airing it out Kat.

 

[noharleyyet]

Kat, Nemont and BHR are only pissy coz you compared Nirvana with Mother Texas.

Doesn't bother us Texans....we're accustomed to misdiagnosed jealousy.

PS, your fence is height disadvantaged.

 

[Nemont]

Kat, Nemont and BHR are only pissy coz you compared Nirvana with Mother Texas.

Doesn't bother us Texans....we're accustomed to misdiagnosed jealousy.

PS, your fence is height disadvantaged.

Now you are unhinged.

 

[noharleyyet]

I'll be damned...a sense of humor. Who knew.

 

[tjones]

Spend some time in the Root Nemont and you will see one cartoon is far from "over the top"

Kat, you left out the elevated box blind and corn flinger.

 

[katqanna]

Spend some time in the Root Nemont and you will see one cartoon is far from "over the top"

Kat, you left out the elevated box blind and corn flinger.

tjones, I should have you on the cartoon brain trust (theres about 6 hunters from various parts of Montana helping me translate from Texan to Montanan and giving me various ideas to draw out of issues they see and want addressed. How could I forget those damn blinds and feeders? I argued with my husband and inlaws constantly about those things. I may have to do an edit after this flu is over and my eyes stop hurting.

Ken, I know it is shorter ;P, but I only have so much space. Funny while I was working on this, I started craving BBQ, pecan pie and had to put a cowboy hat on my logo magpie. Like pavlovs dogs.

HSi-ESi, glad to hear that about Foss. I am still going to try and find out if they bought a membership. So far Gallatin, Lewis and Clark, Sanders, Daniels and Madison counties have not joined. One of the county clerks, hearing why I was inquiring, told me to call MACO - the Montana Association of Counties because sometimes they pay for something the county does not. MACO did not have any payments to ALC. 51 more counties to check on.

Nameless, thank you and I agree with the culmination. I was having a discussion with several other Montana hunters about the "apathy" issue a couple months back, versus ag/livestock. I posited that I think it is partly rooted in the general nature of the two groups. Ag/livestock is a proactive domination of nature to make it conform to what they want. While hunting isnt trying to force anything to be domesticated (well maybe the corn feeders and game ranching, but that is way into the ag/livestock spectrum of things). So by nature, hunters are more laid back until the hunt/pursuit of the wild.

This is reflected in Petersen and Shepards writings. John Madson wrote,

But as much as anything else, one of the greatest urges impelling such a hunter is his search for freedom, and for the genuine personal adventure inherent in such freedom. Just as game species may be the truest indicators of quality natural environments, so hunting can be an indicator of quality natural freedom.

Dr. Murdock Head told of a noted physician who was visiting an Adirondack deer camp for the first time. He was not a hunter; it was all new to him. As he stood by the cabin door one evening, watching hunters dress deer while their companions offered unsolicited advice, listening to the good laughter and easy talk, the doctor turned to his host with a look of sudden comprehension and said, “Why, these men are free!”

Pascal once observed that the virtue of hunting is not in possessing game, but in the pursuit of it. By being absorbed in looking outward for game, “the hunter is absolved of the really insupportable task of looking inward upon himself.” And so the hunter’s eyes are directed outward instead of inward, and myriad nagging, worrisome concerns are overlain with the illusion of being part of an older, freer world.

I once asked an old river rat of long acquaintance why he was such a deeply committed hunter.

He thought for a moment and replied: “Why—to git away from the house and git out amongst ’em mainly.”

Homer once said much the same thing: Manet sub love frigido Venator/Tenerae coniugis immemor. Which renders out as “The hunter goes his way ’neath frigid skies unmindful of his tender spouse.”

…The genuine hunter is probably as free as it’s possible to be in this technocracy of ours. Free not because he sheds civilized codes and restraints when he goes into the woods, but because he can project himself out of and beyond himself, out of and beyond the ordinary, to be wholly absorbed in a quieter, deeper, and older world.

One western Montana hunter told me of a recent conversation with his 30+ year old son, asking why he and his friends were not part of the local sporting club. They need the younger generation. The sons excuse was that he had work, family, kids and no time. I dont buy it. I know these older guys had work, family, kids when they were hunting and fighting for the access some of these younger guys take for granted now.

So Oaks observation of the hunte apathy and disengagement from the process is the big question on many of these guys minds - how do we change this? The sad thing is, we cant just be devils advocates and say, "well let it happen, then they'll see what they have lost and get involved". They might not be able to get it back.

 

[bigskyblueman]

Vigilant is a bit more descriptive than unhinged. Local demagogues like Kerry White and others creating a solution to a problem that doesn't exist is how they audition for their next job. Hunters will raise their voices as they learn their public lands will be given away to Big Business by this land transfer hoax.

 

[What Map]

For any that are interested, the last (May 29th) and next (June 12th) EQC meetings dealing with the Federal Land Carpetbag Grab were and will be held by phone.

The discussion focused primarily on creating a draft report, which will be reviewed at the June 12th meeting, "

Kat, do you know if the draft report will be made public before the phone meeting on the 12th? Will the phone conference be public?

 

[katqanna]

Shannon, their last meeting information was ambiguous at best. Here is the "agenda" for the upcoming meeting on the 12th.

The Draft does not appear to have changed since I fist saw it a couple weeks ago. There was no mention in the audio of the meeting, that I recall and I was taking notes, that the draft would be available to the public before the June 12th meeting. They are working on it now and they were going to do the June 12th conference call to discuss things about it, get it finalized to present to the EQC in August.

"EQC work group members will not be in Helena. The meeting will be conducted via
conference call. Members of the public may attend the meeting in Room 335 of the Capitol. Written comment may be sent to [email protected] " I am contacting the captitol on Monday to find out if there will be livestream available and to see about the draft. I didnt see a livestream for May 29th, I had to listen to the audio that was put up afterward.

Ironically, on the American Lands Council website, there is a Feb. 2014, 103 page Montana's Study of Federal Lands by Sen. Jennifer Fielder, of the SJ15 Work Group. Looking through it, this is disturbing. I downloaded it and will get it printed out so I can deal with it.

If you go through the American Lands Council Resources tab, Support Materials, Fielders presentation appears to borrow from much of their materials, inserting some specific documentation pertinent to Montana.

Here is the link to the EQC page. Scroll down to the third large section, 63rd Legislature (yellow bands) and you will see the "Environmental Quality Council - SJ15 Work Group - Room 335 - Audio Only 05/29/14 01h 50m Audio". Sorry, cant link to it. Its about 2 hours.

 

[What Map]

I am contacting the captitol on Monday to find out if there will be livestream available and to see about the draft. I didnt see a livestream for May 29th, I had to listen to the audio that was put up afterward.

thanks for the information. If it is not sreamed, I'll look for the audio and the next draft for the August meeting.