WARNING: Student Load Forgiveness is Very Unlikely to Pay for Your Next Elk Tag

My boss and his partner got 750k in ppp free and clear. About 20 employees.
So your boss was able to pay his payroll (Payroll Protection Program) which included your wages. At least you still got a paycheck while numerous ridiculous “mandates” were put on his business. Instead of complaining, you should be grateful. Or I guess he should have just shut his doors, sent you to the breadline, and walked away like your government wanted.

Not directly at you personally Nick, your comment just worked as a reply to try and convey my thoughts
 
So your boss was able to pay his payroll (Payroll Protection Program) which included your wages. At least you still got a paycheck while numerous ridiculous “mandates” were put on his business. Instead of complaining, you should be grateful. Or I guess he should have just shut his doors, sent you to the breadline, and walked away like your government wanted.

Not directly at you personally Nick, your comment just worked as a reply to try and convey my thoughts
Pre-pandemic rates and $1.98 per gallon fuel.
 
My company got a huge PPP check but our work did not slow down, and we actually made record revenues. None of us got raises tho due to “uncertainty”.

Make it make sense.
So your boss is a dick. Quit. Find a new job. The company was with the same morals before they took out the grant. Yep, some bad apples out there. There were also businesses that shut their doors, lost everything, and that grant was the only way to pay their employees enough to live while they found another job. If that even existed. Uncertainty was a real thing. Funny how fast everybody has forgotten the hardships that your government imposed upon all of us. Glad you faired well. Still not a valid comparison to the student loan debacle.
 
Everyone that bangs on the PPP loans forgets that the government closed or restricted many businesses. I remember running cash burns at the beginning of Covid to see how long my business would survive before running out of cash. I also remember not laying off people that I would have had the program not been available. Was it perfect, hell no. But to try to compare it to student loans is ridiculous. Apples and oranges.
 
I came up the hard way, in the trades, so I'm quite biased on this topic. Caveat emptor........

As I've posted before, the issue seems to be much larger than just forgiveness of student loans. If young people who were embarking on their college journey could look at this tactically, in other words, I need this degree, which will cost me this much, which will get me a job with this salary, which will allow me to repay costs in this many years, this issue becomes moot. However, we're asking a lot out of 18-19 year olds if we expect them to fight the current system and use some common sense. Couple that with a lot of influential voices saying "follow your passion, and things will work out", and it's no wonder there are problems.

I'm a big fan of Cal Newport and his career philosophy. Namely, think seriously about what kind of lifestyle you want, figure out what sort of career will give you that, and then very intentionally figure out what you need to excel in whatever field that is. Competence tends to create satisfaction much more than finding some mystical perfect career.

In my limited observation, this is why it often works well for people who go to college in, say, their late 20s, as they have much more clarity about where they are going.

Education should be a tool, not that much different than my business' tool trailer. Before you go borrow money for it, there needs to be a clear use for it and a clear way to pay it off in a timely fashion.
 
Everyone that bangs on the PPP loans forgets that the government closed or restricted many businesses. I remember running cash burns at the beginning of Covid to see how long my business would survive before running out of cash. I also remember not laying off people that I would have had the program not been available. Was it perfect, hell no. But to try to compare it to student loans is ridiculous. Apples and oranges.
And it wasn’t your choice. It was forced upon you with Mandates. Nobody mandated anything out of the student loan borrowers
 
So your boss is a dick. Quit. Find a new job. The company was with the same morals before they took out the grant. Yep, some bad apples out there. There were also businesses that shut their doors, lost everything, and that grant was the only way to pay their employees enough to live while they found another job. If that even existed. Uncertainty was a real thing. Funny how fast everybody has forgotten the hardships that your government imposed upon all of us. Glad you faired well. Still not a valid comparison to the student loan debacle.
Nobody is knocking people who actually needed ppp.
We’re just complaining about the people we’re jealous of who got some of it that we don’t feel they needed or deserved.
 
There was. Look it up
All lawsuits I found were from those people that didn't get their loans forgiven. Send me a link if you find the opposite, I would be curious to see the rationale. In the end, that is what most of this is about - someone getting a benefit that another person didn't get and they feel ass-hurt by it.
The industries that really needed this help were retailers, food service, travel, motels, etc., however they gave the loans to anybody that stuck their hand out. This is wrong as well but in no way does one wrong justify the other.
Not justifying anything. Bad ideas were layered on each other in that window, but the comparison is valid.

I think things would be equal when whenever a child is born, they are given a birth certificate and a certificate of incorporation. Employees will cease to exist, just sub-contractors. Diapers will be a tax deductible expense as the parents build the corporation. Everything else is as well- clothes, college, housing, food. Everything is to keep the corporation running.

I worked for what I have.
Obviously, college isn't work in your eyes. More like a beach vacation I presume.


that grant was the only way to pay their employees enough to live while they found another job.
No, it is called unemployment. The loans were conditional on the company not laying anyone off, hence the name Paycheck Protection Program. Obviously some didn't follow the rules. It was a dumb idea, but mostly dumb in giving it to businesses and not directly to employees. I'm all for the Government clawing it back, but good luck.

Screenshot 2023-07-01 at 8.58.03 AM.png
 
So your boss was able to pay his payroll (Payroll Protection Program) which included your wages. At least you still got a paycheck while numerous ridiculous “mandates” were put on his business. Instead of complaining, you should be grateful. Or I guess he should have just shut his doors, sent you to the breadline, and walked away like your government wanted.

Not directly at you personally Nick, your comment just worked as a reply to try and convey my thoughts
Wasn't complaining..
 
Sounds like we agree ultimately. I’ll try to find some links for lawsuits. May not be class action style stuff but there are definitely businesses being prosecuted for improper use of the funds. As far as the unemployment,,, every state in the nation has some sort of perk to their system that went directly to the individual. Unemployment programs are state run, and not federal. Some states were more generous than others. Still, money or longevity, or something was added to those benefits. Should your government claw those added benefits back from those “deadbeats”
 
I came up the hard way, in the trades, so I'm quite biased on this topic. Caveat emptor........

As I've posted before, the issue seems to be much larger than just forgiveness of student loans. If young people who were embarking on their college journey could look at this tactically, in other words, I need this degree, which will cost me this much, which will get me a job with this salary, which will allow me to repay costs in this many years, this issue becomes moot. However, we're asking a lot out of 18-19 year olds if we expect them to fight the current system and use some common sense. Couple that with a lot of influential voices saying "follow your passion, and things will work out", and it's no wonder there are problems.

I'm a big fan of Cal Newport and his career philosophy. Namely, think seriously about what kind of lifestyle you want, figure out what sort of career will give you that, and then very intentionally figure out what you need to excel in whatever field that is. Competence tends to create satisfaction much more than finding some mystical perfect career.

In my limited observation, this is why it often works well for people who go to college in, say, their late 20s, as they have much more clarity about where they are going.

Education should be a tool, not that much different than my business' tool trailer. Before you go borrow money for it, there needs to be a clear use for it and a clear way to pay it off in a timely fashion.
Reminds me of the time we were hosting some girls from a college choir who were performing at our church. One of them complimented our home, and said, this is just the kind of house I want. I said, oh, what are you majoring in? Opera, she said.
 
Reminds me of the time we were hosting some girls from a college choir who were performing at our church. One of them complimented our home, and said, this is just the kind of house I want. I said, oh, what are you majoring in? Opera, she said.
What could go wrong?
 
Obviously, college isn't work in your eyes. More like a beach vacation I presume.
You have an interesting way of spinning things out. The point was that when you buy something, like an education, you should pay for it. Pay for what you owe. If you take out a loan for anything you are liable to pay it off. How the hell you come up with your off the wall beach vacation is beyond me. Are you one of the guys who thinks they are entitled to have a loan forgiven? Because of why? When you BUY an education you are obligated to pay for it
 
Nobody??? It’s being compared to student loan forgiveness.
You are focused on the conditions surrounding the exchange of money, and I am focused on the intended result. The US loans money for college because an educated workforce benefits society. They earn more, pay more taxes, and generally create a more stable populace. The US loans money (through SBA) to small businesses for generally the same reason. It benefits society. They employee people, pay taxes, provide a service, etc. The main difference ? Typically about 15-20% of SBA loans default. The paid-in-full percentage is horrendous at around 50%. As you may know, you can't default on a student loan without a court saying it creates an undue hardship.
May not be class action style stuff but there are definitely businesses being prosecuted for improper use of the funds. As far as the unemployment,,, every state in the nation has some sort of perk to their system that went directly to the individual. Unemployment programs are state run, and not federal. Some states were more generous than others. Still, money or longevity, or something was added to those benefits. Should your government claw those added benefits back from those “deadbeats”
Improper use is called fraud, which is illegal. Unemployment programs are run by states, but the vast majority of the money is federal. To answer the question, maybe. If you want to lock down inflation, have a special one-time tax to recoup some of that money. In the interest of full disclosure, I didn't get any of those checks so I can have a WGAF attitude toward it. But collecting money from people without any money is difficult.
 

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