WA COVID Ridiculousness

SnowyMountaineer said:
The problem is that some people are so turned off by the way facts are presented that even if they agree in part, they feel attacked. They’ll be put off and angered by the delivery so much that it’s hard to care about the information. This is human nature. Like the Freakonomics boys say, learn the art of persuasion, because being right is rarely enough to carry the day.
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Scott Adams teaches the same thing. Unfortunately, both persuading and being right are nearly impossible on an Internet forum, hence why I don’t usually comment on complex issues like this. Oh well.
 
daltrix99 said:
Are you an expert in infectious disease, hospital management, or crisis response? Because literally no expert in any of those fields thinks any of these restrictions are excessive. That is my main point in all of this. Unless anyone is a relevant expert on these topics, tied closely to this situtaion, how can you disagree with the facts that are laid out every day? I truly do not understand that position. Again, to reiterate and to refute your claims about how I view this: it's not dogmatic for me, and my opinion has been completely fluid and open to new information throughout this situation.
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I don't disagree that the US 367k cases or 10.9k deaths. Nor that NY has 131k cases and 4.7k deaths. Those are facts. What people say you do with those is not a fact, those are opinions. Even when all the experts have the same opinion, that's still not a fact.

What I disagree with is the value placed on keeping that death number as low as possible. Is fishing in eastern WA going to change that number, statistically yes it will, how much? I don't know. Will supporting you local pizzeria change the death count, well considering it's more exposure, yeah statistically it will. What about picking up your mail? There's research that says yeah, that increases your risk. Better stop getting your mail.

One of my gripes is that if we're accepting some inherent risk to remain in our lives, I don't agree with which risks are being allowed and which are not, nor to I support any infringement without any discussions on when those infringements are lifted. I know you can't pick a date, but is it when new cases is down to X level, or when X # of people of vaccinated or when X% of the population already contains the antibodies? If you're heard those discussions than please share them.
 
The "tragedy of the commons" is a situation in a shared-resource system where individual users, acting independently according to their own self-interest, behave contrary to the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling the shared resource through their collective action. First defined in 1833. That is a long tine ago and even was before Boomers and Get X and whatever is the current upcoming crop of folks.

Today, the shared-resource is the freedom of gathering and moving around in a shared space. The common good the next three years is to reduce the rate at which people become infected as that correlates to how many develop serious complications needing respirators and medical resources. Why three years? Look up Spanish Flu. No vaccine was developed and was killing for three winters. We do not yet have a vaccine for C19.

I support your inclination to avoid staying at home directives to go to Church or head to Spring Break or hold Corona parties. You can even ride a motorcycle without a helmet and take the batteries out of your smoke alarms. Let your vehicle skip inspection and let the brakes fail. Keep a bullet in the chamber as you hike in the dark. Run with scissors.

High-five each other at the birthday party. Hug in the pews. Shotgun a few beers on the beach. I simply ask this. Do be considerate enough to give up your respirator or the one a family member is using when my father arrives in the ambulance. He is old and is following all the directives as best as he can while you defend your freedom. He believes in science including how viruses spread and kill both the toughest guy on the block and the frail person down the street. He also served during the Korean War so he has some opinions about what freedoms are worth his life to protect those freedoms. But, he is an old guy and tells the same stories over and over so probably not someone you want to share an elk camp with anyway.
 
We should all take this seriously.

Unfortunately I believe some states are cutting access to the outdoors because it’s low hanging fruit for them, it’s an easy one to make it seem like they’re doing something, and it only affects a small population of die-hard outdoor enthusiasts.

What is the right answer? No one will know until this is done. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves and others.

Fortunately there are still outdoor recreation opportunities available, they might not be the ones we put first on the list, but they exist. For now.
 
daltrix99 said:
You may even be able to internally rationalize a lack of empathy for deaths from COVID-19. I see and hear about it daily. 'Cull the herd', 'natural selection', 'too many people'. That is pathologic sociopathy. Say that about someone's healthy 58 year old uncle who dies from this, with 30-40 good years left otherwise. This is not just killing the old and the weak.
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Have you looked at the herd recently? A "cull" might be in order but that's just one sociopaths opinion. This mentality that we should do everything possible if it just saves 1 life crap is out of control and filled with double standards. Fast food, liquor,smoke, and pot stores are all still open all cause underlying health problems. One last thing I wish people would stop using the word unprecedented to describe this. Humans have faced pandemics that threatened to kill or did killed large percentages of the population in the past. I get it there are new and unique challenges associated with our day and age but are these challenges more difficult than those faced by people during the 1918 Spanish flu outbreak, Native American smallpox, or the bubonic plague? I'll leave you with some wisdom from my man Jeff Goldblum.images.jpeg-9.jpg
 
Pennsylvania literally just did a surprise opening day of fishing season today. Didnt tell anyone. That's one way to do it so you dont get the crowding of opening day. Haha. Pretty smart move actually.
 
LopeHunter said:
The "tragedy of the commons" is a situation in a shared-resource system where individual users, acting independently according to their own self-interest, behave contrary to the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling the shared resource through their collective action. First defined in 1833. That is a long tine ago and even was before Boomers and Get X and whatever is the current upcoming crop of folks.

Today, the shared-resource is the freedom of gathering and moving around in a shared space. The common good the next three years is to reduce the rate at which people become infected as that correlates to how many develop serious complications needing respirators and medical resources. Why three years? Look up Spanish Flu. No vaccine was developed and was killing for three winters. We do not yet have a vaccine for C19.

I support your inclination to avoid staying at home directives to go to Church or head to Spring Break or hold Corona parties. You can even ride a motorcycle without a helmet and take the batteries out of your smoke alarms. Let your vehicle skip inspection and let the brakes fail. Keep a bullet in the chamber as you hike in the dark. Run with scissors.

High-five each other at the birthday party. Hug in the pews. Shotgun a few beers on the beach. I simply ask this. Do be considerate enough to give up your respirator or the one a family member is using when my father arrives in the ambulance. He is old and is following all the directives as best as he can while you defend your freedom. He believes in science including how viruses spread and kill both the toughest guy on the block and the frail person down the street. He also served during the Korean War so he has some opinions about what freedoms are worth his life to protect those freedoms. But, he is an old guy and tells the same stories over and over so probably not someone you want to share an elk camp with anyway.
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Another prime example that reason has left the building. If someone disagrees with you in the slightest they must disagree with you in totality. Can you please provide the quote where anyone on here is promoting anything you just claimed?
 
You cant go anywhere in Co without there being people out and about. Trailheads, lakes, rivers all have people utilizing them. A report from university of Washington suggests Colorados covid peak may have happened on March 31st. Take it for what it's worth.
 
One thing I hate is everyone is treating this like its black and white. If you dont abide by every policy, you're a selfish denier. I've taken this virus seriously, believe every death is a tragedy, but call BS on me driving straight to the forest, hiking by myself, and driving straight home resulting a single transmission of this virus. There is a middle ground. Everyone thinks they're right, but none of us know for sure.
 
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