WA COVID Ridiculousness
- Thread starter Irrelevant
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Irrelevant
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People die because of our collective freedoms all the time. If it were just about lives, then we would not drive cars, fly in planes, drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, own firearms, or eat fast food. But alas we have collectively decided that some freedoms are worth societal cost in unintended deaths.
I am also holding onto my spring tag, as I was lucky enough to draw with very few points (1). If I get even a week at the end of the season I think I can find a bear.
N
ntodwild
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Interesting view. To each his own. Enjoy
Irrelevant
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Update. Attempted family bike ride #2 today. We made it 3 minutes and I heard something behind me, it was the dog, I told the kids to keep going, I turned around and chased the dog home, turned back around, and burned it back up to the kids (6 & 9), mid crank chain caught and sheared my rear derailleur completely off. Hopped off and started jogging while pushing the bike.... figuring the kids will wait for me a some point. 10 minutes later I'm still joggin' in bike shoes and they're nowhere in sight. I ditched the bike so I can run faster. One more corner and I see them... finally, WAY up ahead, looking back at me, I give them the ole wave to come back gesture, they turn and start up the canyon, away from me again.... f this. I turn around. The next car that passes (thankfully one did come along) I ask them that if they see some kids to tell them to ride home. I got to my bike and proceeded to coast/push my way home. I pulled up to the house just as they started down the driveway. We've yet to complete a family ride.
I had two beers and started shopping for a new derailleur.
Last edited:
3855WIN
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Sounds like a 14 day quarantine to enter Montana these days.
Hilljackoutlaw
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We've killed over 10 million already this year because of a certain collective freedom.
rtraverdavis
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Well @neffa3, that’s it for the rest of the school year:
mynorthwest.com
So I’ll be teaching from home until June 19th. I can’t say I disagree with it, but the strangeness of these times are honestly beyond comprehension.
Gov. Inslee orders Washington schools closed for remainder of year
Gov. Inslee and Washington State Superintendent of Public Instruction Chris Reykdal announced Monday that private and public K-12 schools statewide will be closed for the remainder of the school year. Distance learning will continue.
mynorthwest.com
So I’ll be teaching from home until June 19th. I can’t say I disagree with it, but the strangeness of these times are honestly beyond comprehension.
Hilljackoutlaw
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Idaho did the same today.Well @neffa3, that’s it for the rest of the school year:
Gov. Inslee orders Washington schools closed for remainder of year
Gov. Inslee and Washington State Superintendent of Public Instruction Chris Reykdal announced Monday that private and public K-12 schools statewide will be closed for the remainder of the school year. Distance learning will continue.
So I’ll be teaching from home until June 19th. I can’t say I disagree with it, but the strangeness of these times are honestly beyond comprehension.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
It is extremely strange here in Chelan County, where there are almost no cases, and everything is generally the exact same as it always has been, except I work from home, the kids are home schooled, and public lands are closed.... Oh and I had to wait in a line of 30 people to get into Home Depot the other day.
They also extended the season closures until May 4th. No Turkey or bear until then. https://wdfw.wa.gov/news/fishing-shellfish-harvesting-and-some-hunting-postponed
They also extended the season closures until May 4th. No Turkey or bear until then. https://wdfw.wa.gov/news/fishing-shellfish-harvesting-and-some-hunting-postponed
It's important to remember (as many in this thread have failed to do so) that the point of all of these restrictions, including those set upon outdoor recreation, are to prevent resource and infrastructural strain on healthcare facilities. You must realize, our hospitals have nowhere near enough equipment to care for the percentages of the population that would require critical and/or intensive care from COVID-19, if we are not swift and fierce with our restrictions (and adherance) right now.
It is just as important to remember to apply this logic to our small and mid sized population centers, i.e. eastern WA, most of ID, most of MT (where I live). Sure, you're county of less than 100,000 people might only see a few hundred cases, or a few dozen patients requiring intensive care. Sounds small, right? The problem is, your healthcare facilities and their scope(s) of practice are scaled to reflect the populace. I cannot believe how this seems to be lost on so many people. Allow me to clarify this: your county hospital does not have enough ventilators to save the number of COVID-19 patients it will receive if strict social distancing measures, including the closure of outdoor recreation, are not enacted. Full stop.
Increasing pieces of data from hospitals and the CDC show this virus being more capable of airborne transmission than previously thought, a la there is significant contagion risk in the out of doors.
Younger and healthy people without categorized preexisting conditions tend to be those flocking to trails, beaches, rivers, parks, etc. Due to no one's fault except maybe the malicious incompetence of the Chinese government*, this younger/healthier population subset (which includes me) assumed relative immunity to life-threatening conditions from COVID-19. This is not the case. This virus is potentially lethal to all who are infected, and it will take years of retrospective research to understand the spectrum of symptom presentation among the entire population. Young and healthy people are dying all over the country, and in Europe, from this virus. But, to circle back to the main point, many of these deaths are potentially preventable if we have sufficient numbers of ventilators (for the patients), and N95 masks (for the providers). I reiterate: many deaths are due to a lack of life-saving equipment. Staying inside and away from other people is the best way to prevent these tragedies. You may even be able to internally rationalize a lack of empathy for deaths from COVID-19. I see and hear about it daily. 'Cull the herd', 'natural selection', 'too many people'. That is pathologic sociopathy. Say that about someone's healthy 58 year old uncle who dies from this, with 30-40 good years left otherwise. This is not just killing the old and the weak.
Once we do callously move beyond the fact that people are dying at a rate which is hard to describe and incomparable (I can't address comparing this to deaths from motor vehicles without being overcome with rage), we can think about the economic disaster. I am not going into a whole diatribe about that, but to tie it into the point of this post: as hospitals are overrun, due to a massive and sudden influx of patients, they face financial ruin. Hospitals (especially on the east coast) will be going bankrupt and laying off hundreds of employees when this is over. That can be mitigated by staying at home.
I work in hospitals and have been in some form of healthcare for almost ten years now. I hesitate to say that, because disclaimers of credibility should not be as necessary as they are right now. I fear that subtle and insidious narcissism runs rampant through our society, and is the number one reason why we are susceptible to spreading and believing misinformation, and for not trusting experts.
I typed way too much. Irrational, negligent, and irresponsible opinions and behaviors during this pandemic are frankly unbelievable to me. I live and recreate in western Montana, and as hard and avidly as nearly anyone on this forum. To echo other posters: get over yourself. Understand there is no precedent for this situation, and an overreaction is acceptable, to say the least. Your local community, your 401(k), your family, and your future hunting seasons will be better off if you can set aside distrust of the government (which I also often share), and just listen to your damn governor.
*I am not one prone to conspiracy thinking, but China absolutely lied about the effect of this virus on their population. To what extent, we may never know. I fear the geopolitical and international socioeconomic fallout will be massive.
It is just as important to remember to apply this logic to our small and mid sized population centers, i.e. eastern WA, most of ID, most of MT (where I live). Sure, you're county of less than 100,000 people might only see a few hundred cases, or a few dozen patients requiring intensive care. Sounds small, right? The problem is, your healthcare facilities and their scope(s) of practice are scaled to reflect the populace. I cannot believe how this seems to be lost on so many people. Allow me to clarify this: your county hospital does not have enough ventilators to save the number of COVID-19 patients it will receive if strict social distancing measures, including the closure of outdoor recreation, are not enacted. Full stop.
Increasing pieces of data from hospitals and the CDC show this virus being more capable of airborne transmission than previously thought, a la there is significant contagion risk in the out of doors.
Younger and healthy people without categorized preexisting conditions tend to be those flocking to trails, beaches, rivers, parks, etc. Due to no one's fault except maybe the malicious incompetence of the Chinese government*, this younger/healthier population subset (which includes me) assumed relative immunity to life-threatening conditions from COVID-19. This is not the case. This virus is potentially lethal to all who are infected, and it will take years of retrospective research to understand the spectrum of symptom presentation among the entire population. Young and healthy people are dying all over the country, and in Europe, from this virus. But, to circle back to the main point, many of these deaths are potentially preventable if we have sufficient numbers of ventilators (for the patients), and N95 masks (for the providers). I reiterate: many deaths are due to a lack of life-saving equipment. Staying inside and away from other people is the best way to prevent these tragedies. You may even be able to internally rationalize a lack of empathy for deaths from COVID-19. I see and hear about it daily. 'Cull the herd', 'natural selection', 'too many people'. That is pathologic sociopathy. Say that about someone's healthy 58 year old uncle who dies from this, with 30-40 good years left otherwise. This is not just killing the old and the weak.
Once we do callously move beyond the fact that people are dying at a rate which is hard to describe and incomparable (I can't address comparing this to deaths from motor vehicles without being overcome with rage), we can think about the economic disaster. I am not going into a whole diatribe about that, but to tie it into the point of this post: as hospitals are overrun, due to a massive and sudden influx of patients, they face financial ruin. Hospitals (especially on the east coast) will be going bankrupt and laying off hundreds of employees when this is over. That can be mitigated by staying at home.
I work in hospitals and have been in some form of healthcare for almost ten years now. I hesitate to say that, because disclaimers of credibility should not be as necessary as they are right now. I fear that subtle and insidious narcissism runs rampant through our society, and is the number one reason why we are susceptible to spreading and believing misinformation, and for not trusting experts.
I typed way too much. Irrational, negligent, and irresponsible opinions and behaviors during this pandemic are frankly unbelievable to me. I live and recreate in western Montana, and as hard and avidly as nearly anyone on this forum. To echo other posters: get over yourself. Understand there is no precedent for this situation, and an overreaction is acceptable, to say the least. Your local community, your 401(k), your family, and your future hunting seasons will be better off if you can set aside distrust of the government (which I also often share), and just listen to your damn governor.
*I am not one prone to conspiracy thinking, but China absolutely lied about the effect of this virus on their population. To what extent, we may never know. I fear the geopolitical and international socioeconomic fallout will be massive.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
@daltrix99
I actually spent the last 60 minutes picking apart or refuting most of your claims. But I deleted it all. For you this is a religion, it's not about facts or discussion, it's not about a balance been risk and rights. It's not about life or death. I honestly don't know what it's about for you, but nothing I would ever say would change that.
I'll only try to make one point, and that is that some people disagree with you. Some rational human beings view the level if infringement of rights as excessive, or at least look at those rights that have been infringed and don't see strategy or leadership, they don't see reason or logic, they see decisions being made out of excessive fear. I do not support decisions being made out of fear. Our Republic is too important to allow fear to govern.
I actually spent the last 60 minutes picking apart or refuting most of your claims. But I deleted it all. For you this is a religion, it's not about facts or discussion, it's not about a balance been risk and rights. It's not about life or death. I honestly don't know what it's about for you, but nothing I would ever say would change that.
I'll only try to make one point, and that is that some people disagree with you. Some rational human beings view the level if infringement of rights as excessive, or at least look at those rights that have been infringed and don't see strategy or leadership, they don't see reason or logic, they see decisions being made out of excessive fear. I do not support decisions being made out of fear. Our Republic is too important to allow fear to govern.
Bigjay73
Well-known member
You actually read all of that?
JustinsDad
Well-known member
9 million people died of starvation worldwide last year, which was about average for a year. What do you think destroying the global economy will do to that number? Estimates are around 36 million.
I don't usually wade into contentious topics via text, whether that be on a forum or over actual phone texting, because I believe true understanding, perspective, and agreements are nearly impossible to come by.
I don't know how to express my confusion at your post, or how to even begin disagreeing with it. I completely sympathize with the defense of our freedoms on principle, and the aversion to governing by fear. Trust me, if you knew me, my lifestyle, and my political leanings, you would understand this, but again here we are anonymously arguing via text.
Initially, I was highly skeptical not only of the virus's potency, but also of the nature of reaction and hysteria by politicians and media. I swear I was! My thoughts and opinions have changed exactly because this is not a religion for me, and I form my opinions based on facts and discussion. But thanks for applying those characteristics to me. I don't have a facebook, and I don't watch the major news outlets. My information comes from physicians, both sourced in the news and in podcasts, from my peers and colleagues, and from my best friends. I.e., literally yesterday when my best friend who is an emergency physician on the East coast, currently living at his hospital per a mandate (literally), texted me to tell me three emergency residents have died from the virus between NY and DC. I.e., I was on a conference call with one of the top physicians at one of the top teaching hospitals in the country this morning to discuss this (and specifically my job/industry as it pertains to the virus).
My information also comes from Howard Bauchner's podcast, which I highly recommend, and from the weekly JAMA podcasts. That info has completely changed my opinion on this over time.
Are you an expert in infectious disease, hospital management, or crisis response? Because literally no expert in any of those fields thinks any of these restrictions are excessive. That is my main point in all of this. Unless anyone is a relevant expert on these topics, tied closely to this situtaion, how can you disagree with the facts that are laid out every day? I truly do not understand that position. Again, to reiterate and to refute your claims about how I view this: it's not dogmatic for me, and my opinion has been completely fluid and open to new information throughout this situation.
I don't know how to express my confusion at your post, or how to even begin disagreeing with it. I completely sympathize with the defense of our freedoms on principle, and the aversion to governing by fear. Trust me, if you knew me, my lifestyle, and my political leanings, you would understand this, but again here we are anonymously arguing via text.
Initially, I was highly skeptical not only of the virus's potency, but also of the nature of reaction and hysteria by politicians and media. I swear I was! My thoughts and opinions have changed exactly because this is not a religion for me, and I form my opinions based on facts and discussion. But thanks for applying those characteristics to me. I don't have a facebook, and I don't watch the major news outlets. My information comes from physicians, both sourced in the news and in podcasts, from my peers and colleagues, and from my best friends. I.e., literally yesterday when my best friend who is an emergency physician on the East coast, currently living at his hospital per a mandate (literally), texted me to tell me three emergency residents have died from the virus between NY and DC. I.e., I was on a conference call with one of the top physicians at one of the top teaching hospitals in the country this morning to discuss this (and specifically my job/industry as it pertains to the virus).
My information also comes from Howard Bauchner's podcast, which I highly recommend, and from the weekly JAMA podcasts. That info has completely changed my opinion on this over time.
Are you an expert in infectious disease, hospital management, or crisis response? Because literally no expert in any of those fields thinks any of these restrictions are excessive. That is my main point in all of this. Unless anyone is a relevant expert on these topics, tied closely to this situtaion, how can you disagree with the facts that are laid out every day? I truly do not understand that position. Again, to reiterate and to refute your claims about how I view this: it's not dogmatic for me, and my opinion has been completely fluid and open to new information throughout this situation.
Hilljackoutlaw
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My understanding from economists' current models is that the economic damage due to the shutdown will be less than if we were not to shutdown (ideally for as short a period of time as possible) and let the virus run rampant. I heard that discussed today by Scott Galloway.
The irony.
Hilljackoutlaw
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It's all bullshit and sucks a big one. If we just would of listened to W....we might still be free.
D
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The problem is that some people are so turned off by the way facts are presented that even if they agree in part, they feel attacked. They’ll be put off and angered by the delivery so much that it’s hard to care about the information. This is human nature. Like the Freakonomics boys say, learn the art of persuasion, because being right is rarely enough to carry the day.
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