Vote Public Lands

[RobG]

Tester has long been opposed to infringing on the 4th amendment (like the Patriot Act does) and also against dark money. Kavanaugh's record wasn't good in those areas. That reasoning is completely consistent with the positions he has held since he first ran against Burns.

 

[3855WIN]

Here’s Tester saying Ford was one of his reasons for voting no. He also voted no on Gorsuch. He voted yes on Kagan and Sotomayor. He’s basically as anti second amendment as you can get when it comes to Supreme Court votes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.greatfallstribune.com/amp/1459735002

 

[RobG]

38855Win... that link didn't work, but here (It's a little different than I remember):

"I have concerns that Judge Kavanaugh defended the PATRIOT Act instead of Montana's privacy. I have concerns about his support for more dark money in politics. I have concerns about who he believes is in charge of making personal health decisions. And I have deep concerns about the allegations of sexual assault against Judge Kavanaugh," Tester said in a statement released Friday morning. "Unfortunately, Judge Kavanaugh couldn't find time to discuss these concerns with me in person, so the only information I have is from what he said in his hearings. I'll be voting against him."

Tester had an A- rating from the NRA last election, which was well after the votes for Kagan and Sotomayor. There is no good reason for the NRA to change their minds. It is not like if Gorsuch and Kavanaugh weren't confirmed they would be replaced by a liberal judge.

 

[3855WIN]

Tester helped enable the shit show that was The Kavanaugh hearing. Can’t deny that. No reason for him to vote against Kav or Gorsuch other than that he opposes decent Americans.

 

[BrentD]

Tester helped enable the shit show that was The Kavanaugh hearing. Can’t deny that. No reason for him to vote against Kav or Gorsuch other than that he opposes decent Americans.

Quite a number of different ways to view what he did/did not do and how to view Kavenaugh or Gorsuch. Being "opposed to decent Americans," however, isn't one of them.

 

[Sytes]

Ballot mailed. 'nuff said.

Sick of this extreme partisan shit.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Sick of this extreme partisan shit.

I think we all are. However, this thread and others offer insight into what others consider regarding a candidate or an issue. Others' valid and well reasoned opinions based on factual information are certainly worth thinking about. Also it is an important part of a discussion, whether it's a debate or not, to call out fallacies or conclusions which are not valid. Unfortunately lately the fallacies are rampant and serve to cloud the important true aspects of candidates and issues. One strong value of this forum is the diversity of experiences, educational backgrounds, perspectives, and abilities to express viewpoints regarding hunting, firearms, travel tips, politics and a wide variety of subjects. The key is to navigate through the clouds of "extreme shit" and the wingnut statements in order to consider the valid perspectives.
Sytes, you and I have established our voting positions and sent responses through the mail, but others may still be uncertain. You and I likely have voted differently on candidates and/or issues, but having read and learned from your posts, I am confident that your choices resulted from informed considerations. Let us resolve to support the outcome(s), whatever occurs.

 

[Irrelevant]

There are some very good points for all standpoints within this thread. I enjoyed catching up on it and hearing some good contrasting opinions. Thanks for those who took the time to answer thoughtfully.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Here’s Tester saying Ford was one of his reasons for voting no. He also voted no on Gorsuch. He voted yes on Kagan and Sotomayor. He’s basically as anti second amendment as you can get when it comes to Supreme Court votes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.greatfallstribune.com/amp/1459735002

Sorry not buying the connection that a vote for or against any judge to the supreme court in and of itself makes any politician pro or against the second amendment, this is just hyperbolic fear mongering. (Both sides do it equally so don't say oh well people said obama xyz)

To my knowledge there have been three supreme court cases in my life time where the second amendment is applicable; District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), McDonald v. City of Chicago( 2010), and Caetano v. Massachusetts (2016). All of these can be seen as pro-second amendment rulings. It is highly unlikely there will be more than a handful of cases that are even tangentially related to the 2nd in the next 10-20 years and even less that a case would come along that would overturn Heller.

There are public lands cases/hunt wildlife related issues on the docket that are important for instance Herrera v. Wyoming (http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/herrera-v-wyoming/)

Personally I think Tester voted with his consciousness. Trump put forth, in Testers mind, an unqualified candidate and Kavanaugh. As RobG said it's not as if suddenly the democrats would have gotten to pick a candidate if Kavanaugh hadn't been confirmed.

Seems like people in both the Democratic Party and Republican party keep forgetting that as a member of your party it is your duty to vote for the best candidate possible. Democrats and Republican's need to hold their parties accountable for elevating wingnuts in their parties into positions of power.

 

[BigHornRam]

Sorry not buying the connection that a vote for or against any judge to the supreme court in and of itself makes any politician pro or against the second amendment, this is just hyperbolic fear mongering. (Both sides do it equally so don't say oh well people said obama xyz)

To my knowledge there have been three supreme court cases in my life time where the second amendment is applicable; District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), McDonald v. City of Chicago( 2010), and Caetano v. Massachusetts (2016). All of these can be seen as pro-second amendment rulings. It is highly unlikely there will be more than a handful of cases that are even tangentially related to the 2nd in the next 10-20 years and even less that a case would come along that would overturn Heller.

There are public lands cases/hunt wildlife related issues on the docket that are important for instance Herrera v. Wyoming (http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/herrera-v-wyoming/)

Personally I think Tester voted with his consciousness. Trump put forth, in Testers mind, an unqualified candidate and Kavanaugh. As RobG said it's not as if suddenly the democrats would have gotten to pick a candidate if Kavanaugh hadn't been confirmed.

Seems like people in both the Democratic Party and Republican party keep forgetting that as a member of your party it is your duty to vote for the best candidate possible. Democrats and Republican's need to hold their parties accountable for elevating wingnuts in their parties into positions of power.

Tester voted yes on Manchin Toomey in 2013.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-fails/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.60a92629c97f

Baucus voted no and was put out to pasture. Democrats play hardball when you break with the party.

Schumer made it clear that every Democrat Senator was to vote no on Kavanaugh. Manchin was the only Democrat to break rank with Schumer. His only option if he wanted to get re-elected. It may work, race is a tose up. No doubt Schumer over played his hand on this one.

If Tester had voted for Kavanaugh he would have easily won. Week left to find out if he played it right.

 

[BigHornRam]

Additionally Schumer's plan was to block Kavanaugh any way possible, then win control of the Senate. Doesn't look like it's going to work out for him. Schumer is a bad dude. Democrats should think strongly about replacing him. Doubt they will though.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Tester helped enable the shit show that was The Kavanaugh hearing. Can’t deny that. No reason for him to vote against Kav or Gorsuch other than that he opposes decent Americans.

Perhaps he felt Kavenaugh was of questionable morals. I thought he was.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Here's hoping that Brad little is genuine in his current position on state transfer of public lands.

 

[Nameless Range]

One of the reasons Tester stated he was opposed to Kavanaugh was Kavanaugh's support of the Patriot Act. Remember, that thing that eroded the hell out of the 4th Amendment and grossly expanded the power of government over our lives? I've said it many times. Conservative is a meaningless word.

I recently listened to Tester talk to Randy on his podcast. He's the obvious choice for me for a lot of reasons - public lands only being one of them.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Q&A of my current district representative.
Q
Do you support the attempt for Idaho to take back control of some of the state's federal lands, and if so, how should the state pay for the cost of maintaining them, which is currently borne by the federal government.

A
Across the western states groups are looking into ways to acquire or control federal lands within their states. Over 60% of Idaho is owned by the federal government and that is affecting the economic development of our state. To immediately take over all these lands would be too big a burden on our state but if we could begin to manage parts of the lands it would be a benefit to our citizens. Management of these large tracks of land is difficult and expensive. Groups are now studying ways to begin a process which would benefit our state.

 

[Elkmagnet]

The challengers Q&A

Q
Would you support efforts to bring some federal lands under state control? If so, how should the state pay for the cost of maintaining them?

A
Not sure at this time. It's not a high priority issue and there are more pressing issues that need to be paid for.

---

 

[Ben Lamb]

One of the reasons Tester stated he was opposed to Kavanaugh was Kavanaugh's support of the Patriot Act. Remember, that thing that eroded the hell out of the 4th Amendment and grossly expanded the power of government over our lives? I've said it many times. Conservative is a meaningless word.

I recently listened to Tester talk to Randy on his podcast. He's the obvious choice for me for a lot of reasons - public lands only being one of them.

Tester has been a friend of mine since 2009. His vote was all Tester. He's never had a problem bucking either party, and if JT thought Kavanaugh wasn't suited for the job, then I trust his judgement. Certainly, the temper-tantrum that Kavanaugh threw in the senate, and the subsequent questions about his finances, debt and his past decisions would have led me to the same conclusion. Most who think Kavanaugh was a good choice have never cited any reason other than that he's conservative. No backing up of that support with decisions he's made, etc. Just political talking points.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Most who think Kavanaugh was a good choice have never cited any reason other than that he's conservative.

I understand different folks weighed the final weeks of his confirmation process differently, but it can not be denied that he had a stellar resume and was a highly respected legal thinker who was frequently cited by Supreme Court justices (and also earned a 90%+ concurrence rate from the much beloved Merrick Garrland). Regarding Obamacare, his thinking was influential and may have saved it, as Roberts adopted his line of thinking. If you want a liberal on the bench, he is not your guy, if you didn't like his demeanor under fire that is your choice, if you believed Ford, more power to you, but to suggest there was no reason to support him is simply false -- even the highly liberal ABA gave him its highest marks in advance of the confirmation process.

 

[Doublecluck]

Tester has been a friend of mine since 2009. His vote was all Tester. He's never had a problem bucking either party, and if JT thought Kavanaugh wasn't suited for the job, then I trust his judgement. Certainly, the temper-tantrum that Kavanaugh threw in the senate, and the subsequent questions about his finances, debt and his past decisions would have led me to the same conclusion. Most who think Kavanaugh was a good choice have never cited any reason other than that he's conservative. No backing up of that support with decisions he's made, etc. Just political talking points.

Most who think Kavanaugh was a bad choice can’t Cite any rational reasons either. That’s why they resorted to politically militarized sexual assult accusations. Truth be told, I would be voting for tester, the first time for a democrat in my life had that embarrassment of American government never occurred. At 38 years of age, father of 6 children, I take serious note when the supposed leaders of this country set the precedent that it’s ok to use accusations of sexual assult against a person because you disagree with their ideologies.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I understand different folks weighed the final weeks of his confirmation process differently, but it can not be denied that he had a stellar resume and was a highly respected legal thinker who was frequently cited by Supreme Court justices (and also earned a 90%+ concurrence rate from the much beloved Merrick Garrland). Regarding Obamacare, his thinking was influential and may have saved it, as Roberts adopted his line of thinking. If you want a liberal on the bench, he is not your guy, if you didn't like his demeanor under fire that is your choice, if you believed Ford, more power to you, but to suggest there was no reason to support him is simply false -- even the highly liberal ABA gave him its highest marks in advance of the confirmation process.

Respectfully, that's not what I said. What I said is that most people hadn't given reasons to support him other than his being conservative. I appreciate you taking the time to cite some examples.

But the ABA also called for delay until a real investigation occurred (it didn't) and they had issues with his temperament years ago.

Gorsuch, for all his faults, has the temperment to be a Justice. Kavanaugh doesn't. None of that explains the mysterious ways his debt disappeared either.