Utah continues push to eliminate public land
- Thread starter Ben Lamb
- Start date
Interesting article written by one who claims an understanding of the Utah Mormon culture with respect to their promise Land - a bit of historical content regarding the opposition of Federally protected public land.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ly-protected-land-their-history-explains-why/
I'm not a big fan of Washington Post though gave this a bit more time to read the article in it's entirety due to her stated background.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ly-protected-land-their-history-explains-why/
I'm not a big fan of Washington Post though gave this a bit more time to read the article in it's entirety due to her stated background.
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guserto4
Member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2016
- Messages
- 66
If he likes Illinois so much he can switch places with me. I'm moving out of this terrible state specifically BECAUSE of lack of access.
What an idiot.
Ben Long
Well-known member
Folks, let's not debate Mormonism (or any other religion). That tangent is a dark alley that leads no where. Focus on the issue. It really is quite simple: Public lands are a treasure for ALL Americans and our freedom as hunters and anglers depends on them. Regardless of their philosophy or religion, opponents of public lands are bad for hunting and fishing.
Carnage2011
Well-known member
It looks like Lee is not on the President's short list for the open Supreme Court seat. That is a huge relief, but for some reason he seems to be in Trump's ear a little too much.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/05/trump-completes-interviews-supreme-court-candidates.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/05/trump-completes-interviews-supreme-court-candidates.html
The problem comes from half-truth and ignorant statements like many of those above. Both of the articles cited above are missing a considerable amount of information and include some general assumptions by the authors that are incorrect. Happy to discuss further if you really want, but suffice it say that almost everyone I knew was not happy with either candidate in the election and by NO means is Don Peay a spokesman for the state of Utah or members of the LDS church. The man is true piece of work, but has weaseled his way into the political system in a way that is very hard to eliminate. Any author that is reaches out to Peay for an article is looking for headlines and sound bites because they will not receive anything intelligent.
There are some VERY large voices in the hunting industry that are fighting PLT that are also LDS (spend a very small amount of time researching and it becomes obvious). Politicians are politicians and will work their way thru the mud no matter the location or religion. Gomer, painting all LDS people under the same banner as Lee and Bishop is like painting all those from Montana under the same banner as Zinke and anyone that spends time on this forum knows have controversial that is.
HighDesertSage
Well-known member
Ok, I spent a very small amount of time researching it and couldn't find anything. Please share. I'd be curious to educate myself.
I hang out with many LDS guys and all the LDS guys I hang out with are adamantly opposed to Public Land Transfer. Some of them own some rather large platforms and they use them to advocate against the stupid ideas coming from UT politicians.
HighDesertSage
Well-known member
As are the LDS guys that I know, including one of my elk hunting partners that I have shared an elk camp with the last 3 years. I was more curious as to who the very large voices in the hunting community were.
Sorry if the first sentence of my post had a smartass tone, I sometimes cannot help myself, my wife hates it...
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Lawnboy
Well-known member
I just find it hard to believe that these guys are puppets to the church. I think they are all distinct individuals with their own opinions and beliefs. As was posted earlier the membership is constantly reminded to become involved and informed on issues and then make an informed personal decision. Very rarely do they ask for your vote on a particular matter. Here's a letter from this spring reiterating this.
https://www.scribd.com/document/373656684/Letter-from-Mormon-First-Presidency#from_embed
Does the church own a pile of land? Yes. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/rea...ggest-landowners-revealed/ss-AAuyYxE#image=36. Those pesky Mormons got beat out by the Wilks at #67. The majority of the holdings are Ag producing or related one way or another to raising a product that can be consumed or benefit man some way (beef,wheat,grains, almonds etc). They are massive advocates of self reliance and use much of this in their humanitarian and charities efforts worldwide.
Randy has enough LDS friends that he alone can vouch for the distinct differing individual thoughts, beliefs and standards that can be derived from some of it's membership.
I for one have found my self leaning closer to being a moderate largely in part to reading to this forum and being personal friends with Randy. He has taught me that just because it has a R or D by the name doesn't necessarily mean something is right or wrong. I've learned to study it out and make an intelligent decision that is best for a whole. I think of the whole wolf reintroduction debacle. Simpson/Tester was my first taste of this concept. Piles of R's were simply against it because Simpson was working with a Dem. So stupid! I do believe there are a pile of blind followers in every religion and political affiliation.
Anyway I am a devout LDS(mormon) member and I adamantly oppose PLT. Utah politicians seem to be a special kind of .........even if we do go to the same church.
https://www.scribd.com/document/373656684/Letter-from-Mormon-First-Presidency#from_embed
Does the church own a pile of land? Yes. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/rea...ggest-landowners-revealed/ss-AAuyYxE#image=36. Those pesky Mormons got beat out by the Wilks at #67. The majority of the holdings are Ag producing or related one way or another to raising a product that can be consumed or benefit man some way (beef,wheat,grains, almonds etc). They are massive advocates of self reliance and use much of this in their humanitarian and charities efforts worldwide.
Randy has enough LDS friends that he alone can vouch for the distinct differing individual thoughts, beliefs and standards that can be derived from some of it's membership.
I for one have found my self leaning closer to being a moderate largely in part to reading to this forum and being personal friends with Randy. He has taught me that just because it has a R or D by the name doesn't necessarily mean something is right or wrong. I've learned to study it out and make an intelligent decision that is best for a whole. I think of the whole wolf reintroduction debacle. Simpson/Tester was my first taste of this concept. Piles of R's were simply against it because Simpson was working with a Dem. So stupid! I do believe there are a pile of blind followers in every religion and political affiliation.
Anyway I am a devout LDS(mormon) member and I adamantly oppose PLT. Utah politicians seem to be a special kind of .........even if we do go to the same church.
Another article related to the "Utah" activity... Or however one wants to phrase it. This has been one of the better reads in relation to "Utah" PLT endeavors... What faiths are Bishop, Lee and Hatch, anyone know?
https://www.outsideonline.com/2188486/public-lands-enemy-number-one
https://www.outsideonline.com/2188486/public-lands-enemy-number-one
Lawnboy
Well-known member
Well according to your article they are LDS. What does the church they go to have to do with their personal beliefs or mine for that matter? I bet if I check out the local government officials in Butte Mt. I'd find that the vast majority are Catholic. Does that mean they speak for the Catholic Church.? Simple demographics mingled with idiot politicians.
I had to re-read the article and I see absolutely no mention of Lee and one mention of Hatch... No mention of their faiths.
I believe they are, either by the various articles read...
You may disagree though there is history related to federal government removing Mormon/LDS land they believed was theirs...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ly-protected-land-their-history-explains-why/
http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=53910431&itype=CMSID
Even down to US Supreme Court ruling that upheld the Edmonds-Tucker Act, specifically removing LDS corporation of independent sovereignty over land they felt was theirs by religious right, among other aspects.
MNH20FowlHunter
Member
I contacted my representatives and let them know this is a terrible idea. I'm hoping everyone who has posted here has too?
Lawnboy
Well-known member
Sytes I'm sorry for your disdain. Not one article ever mentions actual official church leaders, who make decisions, giving an official position on PLT. Your naturally going to have some conflict somewhere along the line with the people or the Church in a state that was settled by Mormons. I spent my early growing up in Salmon, Id. Lemhi County. 92% of Lemhi County is public land yet you will find almost the same identical sentiment regarding PLT and the government over there. It has more to do with culture and what they perceive as what is theirs based on years of use. The SLC article you posted had a great quote which sums up the whole problem with almost every pro PLT person. "People are minimally informed about the issue". Again simple demographics says you're going to have a majority of the rural population of Utah as LDS. Does that mean they speak for the Church as a whole? Have there been some disputes over land involving actual LDS property or perceived LDS property?......I'm sure there has.
Are these law makers who happen to be LDS being told what to do by the church?.....Not a chance. It does make for a good story though. I suppose Harry Reid was just a plant to make it look like their is some diversity.
Any way as Ben Lamb said. It's more about the issue and not the religion. I'm not going to say anymore. Just as the Utah ding dongs have deep rooted resentment towards the government it's apparent that the same can be said about some folks and my Religion.....both are misinformed.
Are these law makers who happen to be LDS being told what to do by the church?.....Not a chance. It does make for a good story though. I suppose Harry Reid was just a plant to make it look like their is some diversity.
Any way as Ben Lamb said. It's more about the issue and not the religion. I'm not going to say anymore. Just as the Utah ding dongs have deep rooted resentment towards the government it's apparent that the same can be said about some folks and my Religion.....both are misinformed.
I had Don Peay on a plane next to me last year. I got him talking about hunting and he moved up to an empty seat to talk to me. I figured it would be a good chance to gain some insight to his thoughts. It was starting to get to the good stuff, then at the last minute the occupant of the vacant seat boarded and he had to move. Dang it.
Under post #24 you’ll see my experiences with the Mormons I hunt with and I’m certainly not painting Mormons- as in people at the individual level- with the same broad brush. A whole side of my family is Mormon. And I’m from Frenchtown, which has a lot of Mormons. I know more Mormons than some Mormons do and many are great friends and family.
Under post #24 you’ll see my experiences with the Mormons I hunt with and I’m certainly not painting Mormons- as in people at the individual level- with the same broad brush. A whole side of my family is Mormon. And I’m from Frenchtown, which has a lot of Mormons. I know more Mormons than some Mormons do and many are great friends and family.
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Bart, I do not believe for a second that LDS are under an official directive to support PLT activity. I hold absolutely zero disdain for any religion/faith excluding the extremes that resort to violence, incite such and (or) dimish equality.
I am looking at the epicenter of the PLT activity and working from there. Commonalities typically start a direction to investigate further.
With that the primary areas of interest; 1. Utah, 2. Approx 70% of Mormons vote conservative (PEW Research http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/09/30/6-facts-about-u-s-mormons/ ) 3. GOP platform PLT. 4. The political power players of Utah voted to represent are Morman and conservatives, 5. Research further, Mormon history of tension between federal government taking land from the Mormons who sought their own sovereignty within the Utah territory.
I believe these *may be* the building blocks for the PLT movement from Utah, research based not emotionally driven.
<Edit added: PEW Research link>
Absolutely zero disdain... If anything, great admiration of the family principles for the mass goodwill, missionaries, devotion to help others, etc...
It's investigating the patterns, finding commonalities, identifying historical past practice and discussing.
Cheers. That's as far as I have and will bow out unless questioned or commented further.
I am looking at the epicenter of the PLT activity and working from there. Commonalities typically start a direction to investigate further.
With that the primary areas of interest; 1. Utah, 2. Approx 70% of Mormons vote conservative (PEW Research http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/09/30/6-facts-about-u-s-mormons/ ) 3. GOP platform PLT. 4. The political power players of Utah voted to represent are Morman and conservatives, 5. Research further, Mormon history of tension between federal government taking land from the Mormons who sought their own sovereignty within the Utah territory.
I believe these *may be* the building blocks for the PLT movement from Utah, research based not emotionally driven.
<Edit added: PEW Research link>
Absolutely zero disdain... If anything, great admiration of the family principles for the mass goodwill, missionaries, devotion to help others, etc...
It's investigating the patterns, finding commonalities, identifying historical past practice and discussing.
Cheers. That's as far as I have and will bow out unless questioned or commented further.
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