Use Enough Gun

[Trap]

My personal mins for Antelope would be a center fire .22cal. For Deer(whitetail or mule) is a 6mm bullet...doesn't really matter from what. For Elk it's a .277 and 140gr premium hunting bullet.

Having grown up in Wyoming and living/hunting out west, Canada and Alaska...I've had the opportunity to see a lot of game alive and dead. As well as talk to many of the professional guides who assist hunters in such things. Overall from them I've gotten the following(in a nut shell) Yes, bring ENOUGH rifle, but not too much. A number of guides I've talked to tell of "flatlanders" coming out west(or north) toting carryable canons which they cannot accurately shoot. A couple of guides DIScourage large, heavy recoil magnums in fact. They'll tell their clients flat out, stick to a .270/280/30-06 class rifle which the hunter is not afraid of. A WELL PLACED shot from any of them is more than sufficient to take game of any size at reasonable distances. That's another keyword; REASONABLE. An ethical hunter will always attempt to close distance to their prey. Taking pot shots across a canyon at 700 yards is just that...a pot shot. No matter how well you do at a range regardless of position...you'll have two things working against you out in the field; you may not have time to grab a rangefinder and set up for the perfect shot and unlike many ranges which may have berms and flags...reading variable winds may be much more difficult. The majority of my hunting has been done with my .243, .270, 7mm-08, .280 and .444Marlin(always take it as "dark/heavy cover" backup). I have used a .300WM many years ago when I headed up to Alaska for a moose hunt, but if I were to do it again, I'd simply carry my .280 loaded with 175 Nosler Partitions because I know I'm not going to be asked to shoot over 200yds in the area I hunted.

Just my 2¢...Everyone has their own personal mins/limits based on their training and experience. Doesn't mean there's really ANY "right" or "wrong" answer so long as common sense and ethics are kept in the forefront!

I'm actually heading to the range early tomorrow to work up some 140gr loads in my 7mm-08 as I'm taking my niece out Elk hunting with me in two years and I want to give her plenty of time to practice!

Have a good weekend...

Well said. My only thing i want to rant about is it seemed like once the 6.5 needmore came out it was a “race” to the bottom of how small a caliber can you shoot an elk with? I would think everyone would shoot the largest caliber they comfortably and accurately shoot? There is another forum with guys posting up elk killed with a 223. It can be done but why? What’s the point? That can’t be the maximum caliber hunters can shoot effectively. We went from a race to the biggest caliber to how small can we go? I don’t get it. Anyways I agree with your thoughts but would encourage people to hunt with the biggest caliber they personally shoot well. Me and my son will take shots out to 700 yards which is not our goal we want to be as close as possible I disagree these are pot shots. We regularly take these shots in hunting conditions just to practice. If you go out to the bench and “practice “ 700 yard shots your shot while hunting is a pot shot but not if you regularly shoot at these distances under all kinds of conditions. Anyways I agree with you on size of gun and the ability to shoot said gun well, Merry Christmas

 

[Don Fischer]

Huge flaw in use enough gun is using enough gun will not over come the flaws in the hunter! Get that problem taken care of and using enough gun becomes pretty much a matter of personal choice. Will a 22 Hornet take out a huge bull elk? Of course it will and every time if the hunter does his part! If you ran into that guy that has a truck load of elk killed with his little Hornet how you gonna tell him it's not enough gun? I do not favor 24 cal anything for deer hunting yet have killed several deer one shot each with the thing. No big secrete to it, place a proper bullet in the right spot and the animal is going down where it stands. have killed a lot of deer with my 25-06. with 100gr bullet the kills are amazing, distruction unbearable, to me anyway. Setp up to the 120gr class bullet, 117gr for me thanks. Place the bullet right and the deer goes down but usually takes a few steps and lays down dead. Distruction is more than liveable for me then! I quite certain the same would happen on elk with those two but, I believe there are better choices which I can live with. By better choices I mean cartridges uaing heavier bullet's designed to use on big game. Those cartridges start for me at 6.5mm. Suddenly bullet's go from 120gr up to 500gr depending on which cartridge you choose. Of course if you choose a cartridge you actually can't handle that well the field narrows itself. Enough gun is somethingopen to different things and the most important in the shooter using it! We have all heard about the animal that absorbed a good shot and ran off. That is hog wash! Either the shot wasn't placed well or simply missed and the shooter is simply excusing his lousy shooting!

 

[HeadedWest]

Well said Trap.

 

[thusby]

Get a kick out of these threads. Half the people defending the same round my 10 year old nephew shoots.

Just hunt in a way, with the right gun, to kill them instantly. If you follow a blood trail for an hour every you time you pull the trigger, then you screwed up.

 

[SaskHunter]

I tried to Ctrl+Alt+Delete this thread but it didn't work. Sorry guys, I tried.

 

[JLS]

I tried to Ctrl+Alt+Delete this thread but it didn't work. Sorry guys, I tried.

You didn’t use enough keyboard.

 

[Trap]

I hate when people under keyboard. Man up people!!

 

[Sharp stick]

Use Enough Gun

The last elk I shot was a cow, taken about 190 yards away. An easy shot. Just as I fired, and elk behind her, moved closer and she hopped forward. There was nothing I could have changed at that point. Had she waited a full second later to jump, my bullet would have gone through both lungs. Had she jumped a second earlier, I would not have fired yet and would have readjusted my aim.

As it was my bullet ended up hitting her right in her hip and going right through and destroying both joints.

She was a two legged elk and down. I shot her with a 300 win mag and a 168 grain TTSX Barnes bullet.

I shot her within the last one or two minutes of legal hunting time. If I had used a much lesser round she would have been a 3 legged elk and have gotten away.

I have a friend who did all his deer hunting with a .243. Many times I commented that he was not using enough gun to deal with a problem if it arose. He liked neck shots, which I do not. There is too little margin for error compared the heart lung area. I prefer the high double lung shot best of all.

Anyway, his little .243 bullet hit the bucks shoulder blade, broke up and did not penetrate. The deer ran away. Left public land and entered private land where the owner hated hunters and it turned in a real mess.

When I read posts about using absolute minimum calibers, like any .25 as an all around deer/elk rifle, or hunting deer or boar with a .223, I just wonder why anyone would choose a caliber that left so little, if any margin for error.

One day I was hunting a 3,000 acre barley ranch. I was on a very well used boar trail. My eye caught the tips of a big boars ears and I dropped flat. The wind was with me and I used a little scrap of rabbitbush for cover, the boar that came in was beyond huge. Later after being gutted he weighed in about 330 pounds. As he came straight in he offered no shot at all. His jaw was covering his chest and shooting at the thick sloped skull was iffy. As he approached me he was opening and closing his mouth.

Just as his mouth opened and his jaw dropped. I put a 160 grain bullet from my 280 right down his throat at no more than 50 yards. It went all the way through into his lungs and he rolled over and spouted light colored lung blood two feet in the air,,,just like a whale

For deer, I think any 6.5 would be using enough gun. I have a 6.5x55 Swede in a model 70 and always liked those 160 grain round nosed bullets. They had working clout.

For elk, a 7mm Rem mag or it’s ballistic equal the 280AI (which I now have)would be my minimum. In both of these choices I am assuming the use of premium bullets. I have found the Barnes TTSX bullets to be so lethal, I use 150 grain TTSX for longer work and have heavy round nosed Lapua bullets when up close and personal

In times past I used to live in Northwestern Wyoming and hunted bushels of Antelope when over the counter tags for residents were easy.

I did use a .270 for them on the flats and way up in the mortician meadows,,,Grizz country. I used to load the 180 round nosed Barnes Originals. The twist was not ideal for long range work but I had other lighter bullets for such srvice. Those bullets looked like half a pencil and would penetrate forever.

I still do not understand this clinging to flat, fast tiny bullets.

Shot placement is ideal an theoretical. Real world situations always afford surprises.

MR

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Using a shotgun and deer slug I have gone for the neck shot several times when the vitals are obstructed, I can’t say any of those deer have taken another step as it puts them down in their tracks. If I was near a property line I did not want the deer to cross or a steep valley that the deer could drop into, etc I would definitely go for the neck shot if using a slug gun or a large enough caliber of a rifle.

 

[Farmerj]

I would definitely go for the neck shot if using a slug gun or a large enough caliber of a rifle.

Apparently a .308 at 100ish yards isn’t enough caliber…

 

[deerhunter24]

i will always go with the 30 30 using winchester super x 170 grain powerpoints. there is simply nothing better.

 

[T.R.]

Its been my experience that the famous .243 is a superb long distance choice for hunting pronghorn antelope out on the open prairies of South Dakota and Wyoming. - TR

 

[Remington92]

Using a shotgun and deer slug I have gone for the neck shot several times when the vitals are obstructed, I can’t say any of those deer have taken another step as it puts them down in their tracks. If I was near a property line I did not want the deer to cross or a steep valley that the deer could drop into, etc I would definitely go for the neck shot if using a slug gun or a large enough caliber of a rifle.

Growing up in Southern Illinois this was always my preferred shot if available with slug gun. Nothing turns the lights out like a good neck shot. Positive side effect it usually doesn't spook any other deer in the same group for filling multiple tags.