UPOM suing FWP over elk regulations

[DFS]

We aren’t looking for more tags…. I am actually to reduce pressure, as are most of the guys I know

Certainly not what has happened over the last year. Where is the push for more tags/permits coming from?

 

[Schaaf]

We aren’t looking for more tags…. I am actually to reduce pressure, as are most of the guys I know

Do you live under a rock or have you not listened to a single word Paul Ellis and Mac Minard have said over the last year?

 

[Schaaf]

Mac Minard, Executive Director of Montana Guides and Outfitters

“Going from limited to unlimited is, I think, a very supported and good concept.”

 

[rogerthat]

Mac Minard, Executive Director of Montana Guides and Outfitters

“Going from limited to unlimited is, I think, a very supported and good concept.”

Spot on. I’m definitely not anti-outfitter but eric and big shooter come on here say one thing meanwhile Moga says another. It would be nice if the outfitters saying they have regard for the states wildlife actually voiced that opinion publicly. Publicly doesn’t equal hunttalk. I read the fwp public comments. It’s genarally business first and wildlife second when it comes to outfitters in this state

 

[Straight Arrow]

Spot on. I’m definitely not anti-outfitter but eric and big shooter come on here say one thing meanwhile Moga says another. It would be nice if the outfitters saying they have regard for the states wildlife actually voiced that opinion publicly. Publicly doesn’t equal hunttalk. I read the fwp public comments. It’s genarally business first and wildlife second when it comes to outfitters in this state

I honestly value and agree with much of the attitudes expressed by Eric and Big Shooter regarding mule deer management and need for FWP improvements.
However, we should not think that they represent MOGA or even know what MOGA's tenets are ... as the contradictions from Minard and others make it seem Eric and Big Shooter are talking MOGA out of their butts, not as fully engaged members.

 

[tjones]

We aren’t looking for more tags…. I am actually to reduce pressure, as are most of the guys I know

During the last legislative session you were looking for more tags —-in your words to “stabilize the outfitting industry”


There is a whole thread on it here.

 

[Big Shooter]

During the last legislative session you were looking for more tags —-in your words to “stabilize the outfitting industry”


There is a whole thread on it here.

Please define the term “you”.

 

[tjones]

Please define the term “you”.

I believe fin spent a lot of money on the search function. It’s easy to use and you will find your answer there.

 

[Big Shooter]

I believe fin spent a lot of money on the search function. It’s easy to use and you will find your answer there.

Maybe you are the one that should use this high dollar search function and prove to me where I/we asked for more tags.

 

[Eric Albus]

During the last legislative session you were looking for more tags —-in your words to “stabilize the outfitting industry”


There is a whole thread on it here.

We were not looking for “more tags”. We were looking to take tags for outfitter clients. Not increase the number of hunters in Montana….that’d never fly

 

[Eric Albus]

Spot on. I’m definitely not anti-outfitter but eric and big shooter come on here say one thing meanwhile Moga says another. It would be nice if the outfitters saying they have regard for the states wildlife actually voiced that opinion publicly. Publicly doesn’t equal hunttalk. I read the fwp public comments. It’s genarally business first and wildlife second when it comes to outfitters in this state

MOGA hasn’t come out and said anything about deer management.

If either shooter or I speak on behalf of MOGA, we will both make it abundantly clear when we do or are speaking for an industry. Meanwhile we will speak for OURSELVES only.

 

[brocksw]

We were not looking for “more tags”. We were looking to take tags for outfitter clients. Not increase the number of hunters in Montana….that’d never fly

That is my recollection as well.

@tjones Albus and Big shooter supported the government picking winners and losers aka outfitter welfare. They believed their clients deserved a tag more than the regular NR DIY guy. They wanted more tags in the outfitter pool and less available to NR DIY folks. I don't remember them mentioning anything about increasing the total number of tags.

 

[Big Shooter]

That is my recollection as well.
Albus and Big shooter supported the government picking winners and losers aka outfitter welfare. They believed their clients deserved a tag more than the regular NR DIY guy. They wanted more tags in the outfitter pool and less available to NR DIY folks. I don't remember them mentioning anything about increasing the total number of tags.

Thank you for making that clear. Much appreciated!

 

[Eric Albus]

It was an early draw for people wanting to book with an outfitter.

It was a way better deal and WAY less than what we ended up with

 

[Eric Albus]

The number we asked for was to high to start with, knowing it’d be carved down, we figured to finally settle at around 30% of the 17k license to outfitter clients.
Preliminary number of outfitter points used this year is around 7k. That’s 7k fewer hunters to compete on BM and other accessible lands. 700k $$ for access programs.
Outfitter impact is a lot less than most contend.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Are you guys literally arguing on hunt talk while you're supposed to be listening to the presentations at PLPW, which you both are members of?

Guys, respectfully, probably not the best look for you.

 

[Gerald Martin]

It was an early draw for people wanting to book with an outfitter.

It was a way better deal and WAY less than what we ended up with

Eric and Big Shooter. Serious observation- no snark. I have never seen or been made aware of any time that MOGA has lobbied or testified in favor of any bills that would limit short term outfitter profit and reduce pressure on wildlife harvest. Can you give me any examples of where MOGA has ever asked for everyone to reduce pressure?

There’s dozens if not hundreds of instances where they have testified, lobbied and introduced legislation asking for more opportunity for outfitter clients to harvest. Does MOGA seriously have no concept of what the consequences of policies they lobby for have on the resource and other shareholders?

 

[rogerthat]

MOGA hasn’t come out and said anything about deer management.

If either shooter or I speak on behalf of MOGA, we will both make it abundantly clear when we do or are speaking for an industry. Meanwhile we will speak for OURSELVES only.

Whatever. You talk out both sides of your mouth…reminds me of worsech. Do you submit public comments for YOURSELVES when you differ with MOGA? The outfitting industry better wake up and start portraying themselves as actors for wildlife and not profiteers of wildlife. When you start losing the support in the hunting community of people with my background you guys are going to be utterly screwed much like @antlerradar previously stated.

 

[Eric Albus]

MOGA is not a conservation organization. It is simply a trade organization representing outfitting interests across the state.
Prior leadership hasn’t seen/understood the need to limit pressure on the resource. Rod and I bring a differ perspective in that arena.
Years ago I brought to the attention of MOGA leadership that the organization should help pressure FWP to reduce pressure in R6 on mule deer, it confounded them. “We’re a trade organization, we don’t do that”. Was the answer I got.

 

[Eric Albus]

Whatever. You talk out both sides of your mouth…reminds me of worsech. Do you submit public comments for YOURSELVES when you differ with MOGA? The outfitting industry better wake up and start portraying themselves as actors for wildlife and not profiteers of wildlife. When you start losing the support in the hunting community of people with my background you guys are going to be utterly screwed much like @antlerradar previously stated.

I might do a lot of things… but talking from both sides, no.