UPOM suing FWP over elk regulations

[Gerald Martin]

good luck. I for one will not be joining your efforts. We need MORE people to care about the resource not less. I don’t want landowners to view them as vermin. I also kind of like this website where we can debate ideas.

Don’t you know that the owner of this intellectual hub that brings people together to discuss wildlife management issues and informs and creates advocates for better management policies is the one of the sources of all management problems in MT because he has a for profit model to generate enough income to keep everything running?

I wonder when folks are going to connect the dots that FWP is also operating on a for profit basis with the way they set tag costs based on projected budget requirements? My biggest complaint about FWP’s model is they are making policy against the interests of their customers (hunters) for the benefit of those who prioritize political considerations over the needs of the resource.

 

[rogerthat]

Wow. Some people are overly sensitive on this forum. I guess you can expect that when you expose their hypocrisy. This is one of the reasons I have a very dim hope for Montana wildlife. Nobody really gives a chit about the wildlife they just want a bigger piece of the pie for themselves or to win. We are way off topic. Carry on.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Wow. Some people are overly sensitive on this forum. I guess you can expect that when you expose their hypocrisy. This is one of the reasons I have a very dim hope for Montana wildlife. Nobody really gives a chit about the wildlife they just want a bigger piece of the pie for themselves or to win. We are way off topic. Carry on.

. Indeed. Carry on.

 

[Wildabeest]

That’s like saying unregistered voters votes don’t count, well at least until they vote(illegally).

Says the guy ranting about conspiracy theories two pages prior.

 

[SAJ-99]

Wow. Some people are overly sensitive on this forum. I guess you can expect that when you expose their hypocrisy. This is one of the reasons I have a very dim hope for Montana wildlife. Nobody really gives a chit about the wildlife they just want a bigger piece of the pie for themselves or to win. We are way off topic. Carry on.

Huh? Hypocrisy is to use this forum as a platform to spread the message of taking any profit out of hunting. C’mon man. I think we would agree on a lot, but not how to go about changing it. For people to think that taking away filming permits or outfitting or selling camo backpacks is going to help the resource, well that is ridiculous. If you think it is going to mute interest in the sport and open up thousands of acres to you so you can return to the glory years of hunting (which probably never really existed) then that is pretty selfish.

Yes, I think there is a place for outfitters and landowners who sell trespass fees and lease hunting. I don’t think they should get special treatment in the allocation of the public resource. The system needs to be fair for all participants and have the health of the resource as the primary goal. FWP has failed to take that approach.

 

[rogerthat]

Huh? Hypocrisy is to use this forum as a platform to spread the message of taking any profit out of hunting. C’mon man. I think we would agree on a lot, but not how to go about changing it. For people to think that taking away filming permits or outfitting or selling camo backpacks is going to help the resource, well that is ridiculous. If you think it is going to mute interest in the sport and open up thousands of acres to you so you can return to the glory years of hunting (which probably never really existed) then that is pretty selfish.

Yes, I think there is a place for outfitters and landowners who sell trespass fees and lease hunting. I don’t think they should get special treatment in the allocation of the public resource. The system needs to be fair for all participants and have the health of the resource as the primary goal. FWP has failed to take that approach.

Huh? Selfish? Why do you put words in other peoples mouths? I never said anything about making hunting better for me. Do you think hunting in Montana is better than 3 years ago? 5 years ago? 20 years ago? Getting rid of markets for game is part of the NAM. The post earlier I was responding to was getting rid of outfitters and trespass fees to get rid of UPOM and their profiteering ways. Lots of people on here pretty okay with that. The profits of the influencers and insta-famous…lots of push back. That’s hypocrisy. Pretty surprising and telling. I’m an idealist. No profits for one…no profits for all. Fair is fair.

Everyone comes to this forum for different purposes. I have a lot of respect for Randy for allowing all opinions as long as they show respect. That’s what makes it a great place. We can debate all this on a different thread. We should stick to upom being dirty squondrels trying to use the court to get what they want. That I’m sure we agree on.

 

[Big Shooter]

I first heard about hunting mule deer in eastern MT from an article Guy Eastman wrote. Maybe this is all Big Shooter’s fault…

Nice try!!

 

[drifter52]

Landowners thru 454 have a chance to address the problem of permits for themselves and/or family(valid ONLY on their deeded land), have to allow X number of public in to harvest a bull, and “Y” number of cow elk to be taken, by the public.

possible but i highly doubt land owners will go for it ,i mean they will agree to the permits for them selves and family. but no way they are gonna agree to x amount of public hunters or valid on only their land
,that part of your idea stops it before the ink on the paper is dry unless there is also a cash incentive also included

 

[Big Shooter]

possible but i highly doubt land owners will go for it ,i mean they will agree to the permits for them selves and family. but no way they are gonna agree to x amount of public hunters or valid on only their land
,that part of your idea stops it before the ink on the paper is dry unless there is also a cash incentive also included

Actually that is how the program is set up. Apparently 13 landowners went for it last year.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Actually that is how the program is set up. Apparently 13 landowners went for it last year.

It would be of "public" interest to learn just who the "public hunters" were who gained hunting access, particularly with regard to relationship to the 13 landowners.
If I seem skeptical and suspicious ... it's only because I am!

 

[Sytes]

Always an interesting consideration: Who can/can not hunt the public's wildlife on private landowner property.

Precarious setting, as we've experienced.

From privately developed Master's program, BMA, to Private landowner tag allocation. Seems this area *could be refined though that grand scale of private and public...

 

[drifter52]

Actually that is how the program is set up. Apparently 13 landowners went for it last year.

Yup with the 13. Land owners granting access to friends and family but calling them public land hunters
if that's not the case then the 13 land owners should have no problem providing names and numbers for those granted access so fwp can follow up and see if they were in anyway related to the land owner.....bet they wont agree to it

 

[drifter52]

I can see both sides of the issue what I can't see is a workable solution that is agreeable to everyone.
To much take not enough give on either side
No one wants to trulely meet in the middle
And I don't see it getting better anytime soon

 

[KB_]

I think we could pitch it as getting money out of hunting. After all that is the corruption. I would say all the influencers and insta-famous hunters and their biz models also banned in Montana. No money from hunting in our state.

There goes all of Bozeman lol

 

[Eric Albus]

Huh???

Lol

 

[Eric Albus]

I don’t think it would I think it would pass. People like me that don’t think it’s a good idea would vote for it with the current state of affairs.

And so the you’d vote to “end outfittting”. Think that’s going to solve anything?

Remember this if nothing else, the outfitter is merely the whipping boy, the landowner has the say of who comes and goes when and where.

 

[antlerradar]

And so the you’d vote to “end outfittting”. Think that’s going to solve anything?

Remember this if nothing else, the outfitter is merely the whipping boy, the landowner has the say of who comes and goes when and where.

I think the outfitting industry should take @DougStickney feelings as a warning sign. There are plenty of people in the state that is going to hate on the outfitters/landowners and the industry is never going to please them no matter what you do. Outfitters shouldn't lose any sleep over those people. If the industry is losing the @DougStickney's of Montana the policies they are pushing are gong to come back and bit them hard much sooner than later. Eric has proposed some ideas that are a good starting point with some merit. UPOM has pushed ideas that are nothing but self serving.

 

[DFS]

And so the you’d vote to “end outfittting”. Think that’s going to solve anything?

Remember this if nothing else, the outfitter is merely the whipping boy, the landowner has the say of who comes and goes when and where.

I’m fully aware if outfitters were gone landowners magically wouldn’t open up their gates for people to hunt. I think getting rid of outfitter set asides made this problem worse. Now outfitters/landowners are looking for new and creative ways to get more tags. The last thing Montana needs is more tags. I’m fed up with the complete lack of management in Montana while everyone just fights over their slice of the pie. UPOM isn’t acting in good faith and if taking away their motive of selling bull tags is on the ballot I’m going to vote for that.

 

[Eric Albus]

I’m fully aware if outfitters were gone landowners magically wouldn’t open up their gates for people to hunt. I think getting rid of outfitter set asides made this problem worse. Now outfitters/landowners are looking for new and creative ways to get more tags. The last thing Montana needs is more tags. I’m fed up with the complete lack of management in Montana while everyone just fights over their slice of the pie. UPOM isn’t acting in good faith and if taking away their motive of selling bull tags is on the ballot I’m going to vote for that.

We aren’t looking for more tags…. I am actually to reduce pressure, as are most of the guys I know

 

[Beignet]

There's getting to be more and more. This one organized over 10 years ago because the writing was on the wall then.
MSA PAC scorecard

Is anyone here a member of MSA that participates in info dissemination?

The PDF is informative and I appreciate the attention to detail. But, most folks don’t pay attention to details. I’d like to see it look more like some of the out her scorecards groups use (UPOM, NRA, ETC) with just a percentage that’s easy to see or a map someone could hover over the district and see. They can link to the context, but I don’t think Joe Q. Public has the attention span to read through data methodology before getting down to core info of whether a legislator supports the sporting public. Shoot me a message and I’d be happy to discuss some ideas on how to make this info more visible!