Un-reasonable Suspicion

[brownbear932008]

In most states GWs can do what guys have mentioned when you are out in the field or in a hunting camp or at check stations along the highway. However, they have no more power or right to come onto private property to search a home, vehicle, etc. UNLESS they have a warrant to do so. From what the OP said I doubt that any of the searches were legal because if they have probable cause that can be produced they take that information and legally have to obtain a search warrant. That search warrant then allows them to legally enter and search whether you like it or not. I'd be talking to a lawyer and stop that BS right now if what the OP mentioned is going on.

This right here. Wardens don't have any more seach authority than any other LEO in your residence without a search warrant or your permission. Even though some think they do (most of those get it from the old school guys or are old school guys and haven't been called out on thier BS yet).
If what has been posted is what has happened you need to tell them to fly a kite next time they show up at your house. Then just maybe they will get real stupid and think they can then arrest you for doing so. Don't be afraid to say no. More than likely they will change thier thinking and leave. No government authority is searching my house either without a SW, even though I may also invite them in for dinner and war stories.

 

[squirrel]

This one happened to me. Exactly as I am about to tell it. Hunting geese shortly after nationwide steel shot was mandatory. Lying in the mud amid decoys late pm in a field where driving was forbidden due to tearing up the muddy roads. Wardens come in slinging mud 30 ' high cutting 8" ruts on the forbidden road. They stopped and I went to pick up my gun and walk over. They ordered me to not touch the gun came over searched my bag checked my gun frisked me and accused me of shooting lead shot due to the hull markings. I explained that they were hand loads... But they had a MAGNET and went to retrieve it. Man I was screwed now!! But the magnet stuck to every shell- their dejected faces were priceless. They point to a bag under the outside decoy . What's that? My extra clothes and shells... Now they had me cold!! They took their magnet and I layed back down on my pad while they went over and tore into my bag. They tore off spraying mud after a few minutes and at quitting time I went over and they had pulled all 50 extra shells out and chucked each one into 4" of clay goo after using their magnet and stepped all over them. At seasons end I had to pay the landowner $200 for grading out their ruts. 15 years later I invited a "true believer" (like I suspect great bwana is). Slow day in the goose field and I told him that story. He looked me right in the eye and told me it didn't happen. " because they wouldn't do that, they are professionals ". I've never spoken to him since.

 

[brownbear932008]

I think he's drinking too much and then "answering" the post questions....

Okay maybe you have something here? Sorry I am having a hard time following the OP on this one.

 

[hank4elk]

A warden can see a deer skull or fresh hide in your yard,be told by neighbors you are poaching and do an investigation for probable cause and get warrant.
He can see a cooler in your truck with fishing poles in there and ask you to show him. If you don't that's probable cause,warrant next and the whole show with local,state LEO's.
They have more leeway for probable cause than other LEO's.

Hunting season,your in what looks like hunt camp.He can stop and ask if you are or not hunting or if you have your paperwork and ask to see it. If you say no and it looks hinky to him ,That's probable cause! He will go and call for field warrant,which they can get and back-up,if he's smart.

Going into someones home without warrant, which he could get on probable cause, then would be outside his leeway,unless there was heads,gutpiles and evidence of butchering wildlife. Even then if he was smart,they would get a warrant for more evidence.
All wardens I know WOULD have had a warrant.....and back-up.At the very least come ask you about it first.

Still sounds hinky to me OP.
Or you have a renegade warden ,do what he wants,makes his own laws guy. Then I would have his badge and all,if I was not guilty.

 

[Gr8bawana]

.

Still sounds hinky to me OP.
Or you have a renegade warden ,do what he wants,makes his own laws guy. Then I would have his badge and all,if I was not guilty.

If things were really as you say you would have gotten a lawyer a long time ago.
You expect us to believe they just picked you out of the blue for harassment with no regard to legalities, right? Anyone can say anything they want on the internet or leave out crucial info for their own agenda.

 

[the nikster]

I read this whole thread and came away feeling like I need a bath.
If the LEO is doing something illegal then call them on it. Not sure that this group has helped a lot. If I was you, I would go down to the local grocer and buy a bunch of beef burger and some steaks. I would bring them home and repackage them. I would label them as I see fit. Cow elk, February 2014/antelope burger, nov 2014, moose steaks, June 2013. Get inventive. I don't suppose there is a law that says how you have to label store-bought beef that you place in your personal freezer.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Taking a bath would have been much better than that dumb post!

 

[squirrel]

All I want... my 'agenda" is for you ... to tell me:
How many warrantless searches would you be willing to subject your home to before it pissed you off and you took steps to not have it happen again.

And what would those steps be?

Thanks to those who "got it".

 

[MN Public Hunter]

All I want... my 'agenda" is for you ... to tell me:
How many warrantless searches would you be willing to subject your home to before it pissed you off and you took steps to not have it happen again.

And what would those steps be?

Thanks to those who "got it".

The answer is ZERO - one....

 

[roadhunter]

Fish and Game Code section 1006 provides in pertinent part:  “The [Fish and Game] department may inspect the following:  [¶] (a) All boats, markets, stores and other buildings, except dwellings, and all receptacles, except the clothing actually worn by a person at the time of inspection, where birds, mammals, fish, reptiles, or amphibia may be stored, placed, or held for sale or storage.” - See more at: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-supreme-court/1571450.html#sthash.b71GOmLR.dpuf

Under the provisions of section 2012, any person who fishes or hunts in this state is required to exhibit, upon demand of any game warden (1) any required fishing or hunting license, (2) all fish or game that have been caught or taken, and (3) any equipment that has been used to take such fish or game.7  Although the statutory language does not explicitly so provide, it appears clear that section 2012 implicitly authorizes a game warden to demand that a person who is or has recently been fishing or hunting display to the warden the items to which the statute refers.  (See, e.g., Dickey v. Raisin Proration Zone No. 1 (1944) 24 Cal.2d 796, 810 [“It is well settled in this state that governmental officials may exercise such ․ powers as are necessary for the due and efficient administration of powers expressly granted by statute, or as may fairly be implied from the statute granting the powers”];  Betchart v. Department of Fish & Game (1984) 158 Cal.App.3d 1104, 1109–1110 (Betchart ) [applying foregoing principle in finding game wardens have implied authority to enter private property on which hunting occurs, despite property owner's objection, to enforce hunting regulations].) - See more at: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-supreme-court/1571450.html#sthash.b71GOmLR.dpuf

 

[roadhunter]

Looks like Wyoming has just made a change in the last month.
http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2015/bills/SF0108.pdf
23-6-109. Search with or without warrant;
12 confiscation and disposition of wildlife.
13
14 (d) No person authorized to enforce the provisions of
15 this act as provided in W.S. 23-6-101, in the course of
2015 STATE OF WYOMING 15LSO-0487
2 SF0108
1 performing their ordinary duties, may enter any private
2 land without the permission of the landowner or the lessee.
3 However, a person authorized to enforce the provision of
4 this act may enter any private land without permission:
5
6 (i) If reasonable suspicion or probable cause
7 exists that a violation of a law that the person is
8 authorized to enforce has been, is being, or is about to be
9 committed;
10
11 (ii) To investigate a report of illegal hunting,
12 fishing or trapping activity;
13
14 (iii) To dispatch crippled or distressed
15 wildlife; or
16
17 (iv) To respond to emergency situations,
18 accidents or other threats to public safety.

 

[roadhunter]

http://scholarship.law.umt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2310&context=mlr

The role of game wardens is also defined by the Montana
legislature. To become a game warden, an individual must pass
a test, meet certain departmental requirements, and take an
oath to uphold the United States Constitution.46 Game wardens
are authorized to act as officers in enforcing laws and
regulations.47 Wardens have the power to arrest upon probable
cause and to exercise other powers of peace officers. 48 Wardens

Stearns: State v. Boyer
Published by The Scholarly Forum @ Montana Law, 2004
194 MONTANA LAW RE VIE W Vol. 65
have a statutory duty to enforce laws and rules relating to the "protection, preservation, and propagation of game and furbearing
animals, fish, and game birds."49 Game wardens also
have the duty to see that persons who hunt or fish on state lands
have the requisite licenses. 50 Finally, wardens are charged with
a duty to "assist in the protection, conservation, and propagation
of fish."51
Game wardens also have unique authority in relation to
Montana's search and seizure laws. Like all law enforcement
officers, wardens have the power of search, seizure, and arrest.52
Montana law gives wardens the authority to inspect fish and
game "at reasonable times and at any location other than a
residence or dwelling." 5

 

[Dave N]

All I want... my 'agenda" is for you ... to tell me:
How many warrantless searches would you be willing to subject your home to before it pissed you off and you took steps to not have it happen again.

And what would those steps be?

Thanks to those who "got it".

If that's all you really wanted you sure did a poor job of going about it. You left a hidden story dangling behind your post that reeked of hidden information. As for your question, I would allow the first one IF REQUIRED and then call them out on any after that. The next steps would involve a lawyer first, the state's attorney next, and then whatever those two folks recommended.

 

[Straight Arrow]

'Good response, Dave N.

It's becoming more apparent how the moniker "squirrel" came about.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

For Roadhunter---All three of your posts say exactly what I said and that is a GW can't enter a person's dwelling without a search warrant unless the owner is asked and of their own free will allows them to! Dave N was spot on with his response!

 

[windymtnman]

I think the comments of "Honey Badger" are the most accurate, and correct. Most often, there are two sides to every story. Obviously, we're reading portions of one of those sides.
There's an old JOKE, that Warden's can "search incident to curiosity", however I repeat, that's a joke.
How can any law enforcement officer search? Let me count the ways.
1. With consent.
2. With a warrant.
3. With exigent circumstance in limited, scenarios, sometimes including the vehicle exception where evidence might be destroyed or moved prior to a warrant being obtained.
4. While in the arrest of a subject, searching the immediate arrest area for weapons.

Did I miss anything? It's been awhile since I was responsible for knowing.

 

[Gr8bawana]

If that's all you really wanted you sure did a poor job of going about it. You left a hidden story dangling behind your post that reeked of hidden information. As for your question, I would allow the first one IF REQUIRED and then call them out on any after that. The next steps would involve a lawyer first, the state's attorney next, and then whatever those two folks recommended.

Thank you.

 

[RobG]

I'd like wardens in my to be under the same restrictions for warrentless search as the police (4th amendment) but they are not as far as I can tell. There was some legislation this last session to correct that but it met with strong opposition from sportsmen groups. If you think their authority is bad the border patrol basically has free reign within 100 miles of the border.

 

[noharleyyet]

If you think their authority is bad the border patrol basically has free reign within 100 miles of the border.

...and how's that worked out for us?

 

[RobG]

...and how's that worked out for us?

Exactly - all this power ripe for abuse and it doesn't stop what it is supposed to.

Now I have to bug out since I'm going hiking with my daughter on the Gallatin crest. We are dressing in tin foil lined camo so the drones can't see us (kidding, but not about the warrentless searches).