Ukraine / Russia

[noharleyyet]

He's the runt who chips you in gym class while his nuclear thugs smirk. That's it...

 

[406dn]

The challenge is, can he have a big enough “win” to save his power position at home? In the eyes of a tyrant, no reason to retreat only to be ousted at home.

This is one reason I cringe at some of the war criminal sound bites - it narrows the window for a peaceful outcome that leaves Putin in an acceptable position in his eyes. I am not saying I disagree with the allegations or that I want him to remain comfortably in power, just that I hate to think the only outcomes are Putin defeats Ukraine and turns to Moldova or NATO literally drives in to Russia and removes him.

We have to leave space for a middle ground unless we are prepared for real war.

So, how much of their country is Ukraine supposed to give up so Putin can save face? Putin started it...so him saving face his problem.

He has succeeded in turning parts of Ukraine into rubble. HE has succeeded in forcing millions to flee their homes. He likely will succeed in triggering a food crisis. I have a very hard time giving him some gift so he can save face.

If the Ukrainians are willing to fight for their country and the west is willing to supply the needed munitions, I think Russia is going to have an increasingly difficult time sustaining their munition supplies.

Our biggest mistake with Putin is we let him get away with many bad acts in the past, because we didn't want to provoke something larger.

 

[Gerald Martin]

[QUOTE="Randi, post: 3387961, member: 41663

p.s. I did not know who the Smothers Brothers were . my grandparents have corrected that void in my life
[/QUOTE]

Cultural icons. Even if they leaned a bit left and were somewhat provocative for their time. Hard to believe considering what passes for provocative content these days.

 

[longbow51]

p.s. I did not know who the Smothers Brothers were . my grandparents have corrected that void in my life

Glad they could help. As much as I admire your thoughtful posts, was going to have to block you on general principles

 

[Randi]

they enjoy "educating " me

Rush Limbaugh, Howard Stern ( they said for "Balance" ) then as it usually does it turns to music and I now know a couple of new songs. McQuire, Eve Of Destruction and Dylan, Blowing in the Wind--- they thought was appropriate songs since we are discussing war. My mother does not always agree with what they think I need to know

 

[Deleted member 28227]

And who would take him, (asylum ) maybe Turkey, but I doubt it. There are a couple countries in the middle east who might if he was able to transfer a considerable amount of cash to them before he arrived.

We have like 5000 troops and 50 nukes in Turkey, which we "share" with them as they are a member of Nato.

 

[Randi]

We have like 5000 troops and 50 nukes in Turkey, which we "share" with them as they are a member of Nato.

View attachment 221231

Thank you. Their ( Turkeys ) juggling act, will become harder if this war doesn't find a way to end soon. They have given some of Russia's millionaires a safe harbor for their assets, but Putin would have to look elsewhere if he should ever seek asylum.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Thank you. Their ( Turkeys ) juggling act, will become harder if this war doesn't find a way to end soon. They have given some of Russia's millionaires a safe harbor for their assets, but Putin would have to look elsewhere if he should ever seek asylum.

I really don't think there is anyone in Russia that could push Putin out of power. He's done a very good job and eliminating any domestic threat to his power.

Plus I get the sense that he has like an 80%+ approval rating.

 

[Shangobango]

rather than forming their own opinions based on objective information

That is part of the issue. It isn't so easy to wade through all of the narratives and find objective information. You have to piece together a facts from different outlets or platforms to get anywhere close to the full story.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Is it morally wrong of me to hope that the reports of Putin having cancer are accurate and understated?

I haven’t been able to quite reconcile some of those issues with my personal faith and basic desire to wish well for everyone.

I find myself arriving at the hopes of something terminal and swift for the sake of hopefully ending the misery of all the suffering he’s caused for the victims of his war, without undue personal misery so I can preserve an idea that I am not personally vindictive or that I take pleasure in suffering.

Does anyone else think about things like this?

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

That is part of the issue. It isn't so easy to wade through all of the narratives and find objective information. You have to piece together a facts from different outlets or platforms to get anywhere close to the full story.

Yup. The other option is to submit to manipulation. The Truth Ministry certainly isn't going to help you...

 

[Shangobango]

Is it morally wrong of me to hope that the reports of Putin having cancer are accurate and understated?

I haven’t been able to quite reconcile some of those issues with my personal faith and basic desire to wish well for everyone.

I find myself arriving at the hopes of something terminal and swift for the sake of hopefully ending the misery of all the suffering he’s caused for the victims of his war, without undue personal misery so I can preserve an idea that I am not personally vindictive or that I take pleasure in suffering.

Does anyone else think about things like this?

You are more compassionate than me.

 

[VikingsGuy]

So, how much of their country is Ukraine supposed to give up so Putin can save face?

I would guess minimum would be “independent” land bridge to Crimea with pro-Putin puppet. “Better” would be annexing land bridge to crimea outright. Ukraine promise no NATO would be a bonus as would full control of Black Sea access Ukraine used to have.

 

[QuazyQuinton]

That is part of the issue. It isn't so easy to wade through all of the narratives and find objective information. You have to piece together a facts from different outlets or platforms to get anywhere close to the full story.

It seems to me that you also have to be willing to say, "I don't know," or at least, "I don't know yet." People seem to have a strong aversion to saying those words.

QQ

 

[antlerradar]

Is it morally wrong of me to hope that the reports of Putin having cancer are accurate and understated?

I haven’t been able to quite reconcile some of those issues with my personal faith and basic desire to wish well for everyone.

I find myself arriving at the hopes of something terminal and swift for the sake of hopefully ending the misery of all the suffering he’s caused for the victims of his war, without undue personal misery so I can preserve an idea that I am not personally vindictive or that I take pleasure in suffering.

Does anyone else think about things like this?

My mother died of cancer, I would not wish that misery on my enemies, but I might make an exception for Putin.

I wonder it this cancer talk is real or is it just a way to ratchet up the nuclear pressure to make the west pause on selling Ukraine weapons or letting Sweden and Finland join NATO.

 

[406dn]

I would guess minimum would be “independent” land bridge to Crimea with pro-Putin puppet. “Better” would be annexing land bridge to crimea outright. Ukraine promise no NATO would be a bonus as would full control of Black Sea access Ukraine used to have.

I can see what's in in for Russia. It's harder to see it "saving any face" for Ukraine. So for Russia getting land by force, Ukraine promises not to partner with allies that would help protect it. Got it.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

I would guess minimum would be “independent” land bridge to Crimea with pro-Putin puppet. “Better” would be annexing land bridge to crimea outright. Ukraine promise no NATO would be a bonus as would full control of Black Sea access Ukraine used to have.

I am not sure what the leadership of NATO (to include us), have learned in the last month, or so, but we are currently escalating against Russia. 2 months ago we seemed far more concerned with providing Putin a soft landing, now it seems like the west is willing to see if Putin is ready to die on this hill....

 

[Shangobango]

It seems to me that you also have to be willing to say, "I don't know," or at least, "I don't know yet." People seem to have a strong aversion to saying those words.

QQ

For sure. If you think you know everything it is hard to learn anything.

 

[88man]

Back to the original topic.

Finland and Sweden are banning Russian players from their hockey teams

Finland appears to be headed toward NATO membership with the first vote this month and Sweden may not be far behind

The sanctions, not just on the country of Russia, but Russia's millionaire's and their assets outside of Russia

and Ukraine has not and did not just roll over and play dead as possibly Russia thought they would.

Does Putin look for a way to save face or does he ride this horse ( war with Ukraine ) till it ( or he ) is dead ?

I'm guessing he rides his horse until the goal is complete to much USA saber rattling and big horns and drums. Crazy game when the cheerleaders are calling the plays and coaching the players and paying the team.

 

[88man]

I am not sure what the leadership of NATO (to include us), have learned in the last month, or so, but we are currently escalating against Russia. 2 months ago we seemed far more concerned with providing Putin a soft landing, now it seems like the west is willing to see if Putin is ready to die on this hill....

what if he is?