According to this, Isaac and his children might have been an early example. A lot to read there if you've got some spare time.
Ukraine / Russia
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VikingsGuy
Well-known member
This is terrifying...
Ukraine war: 'My city's being shelled, but mum won’t believe me'
These Ukrainians say their Russian relatives only trust the narratives they see on TV at home.www.bbc.com
But, ask yourself, where would you, your friends, and family, fall in this situation? Would you be willing to admit that everything you thought you knew was wrong? What kind of evidence does it take to turn that opinion? I know I have numerous family that would be just like the russians described in that article.
This article breaks my heart. When even families can not align on simple physical facts, then what hope do we have as a society to solve less concrete but even more difficult problems?
Nameless Range
Well-known member
Another podcast, but some thoughts on the content within it. This is a roundtable about America's role in how this came to be, what we should do, and what we shouldn't. To be simple about it, two of the guests see the current American Administration as abjectly failing in their role in this, and one thinks they are doing well.
As war rages, maybe it is inappropriate to ask how we got here or what we could've done to prevent this. But maybe not. Some clips from history discussed in the podcast..
"To Russia, Ukraine can never be just a foreign country.We need a policy aimed at reconciliation." Henry Kissinger - 2014
"The West is leading Ukraine down the Primrose Path and the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked." John Mearsheimer - 2016
"Ukraine's desire to join NATO is not protecting Ukraine and is threatening Ukraine with major war." - Chomsky - 2015
"The 1980s want their foreign policy back." - Barack Obama -2014
The podcast not only discusses how we got here and what we should have done differently, but what we should do today, and the guests disagree fairly vehemently on the level of hawkishnes we should exhibit. This is a really well done podcast, and these guys are experts, and I believe, come by their positions earnestly. Which says something about how confusing this is and how there will be variation in people's takes on this, particularly to guys who are OK at recommending hunting boots and rifle caliber loads.
www.honestlypod.com
As war rages, maybe it is inappropriate to ask how we got here or what we could've done to prevent this. But maybe not. Some clips from history discussed in the podcast..
"To Russia, Ukraine can never be just a foreign country.We need a policy aimed at reconciliation." Henry Kissinger - 2014
"The West is leading Ukraine down the Primrose Path and the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked." John Mearsheimer - 2016
"Ukraine's desire to join NATO is not protecting Ukraine and is threatening Ukraine with major war." - Chomsky - 2015
"The 1980s want their foreign policy back." - Barack Obama -2014
The podcast not only discusses how we got here and what we should have done differently, but what we should do today, and the guests disagree fairly vehemently on the level of hawkishnes we should exhibit. This is a really well done podcast, and these guys are experts, and I believe, come by their positions earnestly. Which says something about how confusing this is and how there will be variation in people's takes on this, particularly to guys who are OK at recommending hunting boots and rifle caliber loads.
Latest Episodes | Honestly Podcast
www.honestlypod.com
SAJ-99
Well-known member
For decades in Russia, there have been no facts. Only what Putin wants people to see. If that is all they see, the west is trying to say “don’t believe your lying eyes!” Tough sell. It worked so well there that he imported it to America. And it appears to be working pretty well.
LUST
Irrelevant
Well-known member
That is exactly my fear. that we are following down that same path, but instead of one state sponsored media, we have two. Pick a side.
I'm sick of war! I'm tried of the talking heads repeating the same crap that got us in war for the last 20yrs. Sadam has weapons of mass destruction. Where were they ? All the lives lost and destroyed for what? So the people building war machines prop up the petrol dollar. When's the last time you heard a politician run on a peace plan? We instigated this whole mess in Ukraine by supporting the over throw of their government. Why? We don't even want to secure our own borders but we sure as he'll worried about every one else's
1. Source
2. We all do, we just can't agree on how.
Our media sponsors the state
MThuntr
Well-known member
Things are getting real!
omaha.com
Russian cats banned from international competition
The Federation Internationale Feline has banned Russian cats from competition until at least June because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
MarvB
Well-known member
Every time they show that “40-mile long convoy” of Russia’s balled up along that highway I wish there was about three squadrons of A-10s available to turn said highway into a ditch!
antlerradar
Well-known member
That is who I was thinking about, but then again Sunday school was a long time ago.According to this, Isaac and his children might have been an early example. A lot to read there if you've got some spare time.
Primogeniture - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
McCain was in the Eastern European nation—along with Democratic Senator Chris Murphy — to cheer on the ongoing right-wing protest movement. In February 2014, this movement was successful: Ukraine’s democratically elected, pro-Russian government was overthrown in a coup, in which fascist forces played a significant role (FAIR.org, 3/7/14).
You can look up Julie's newlands involvement also.
They supported the Ukrainian Nazi's that over thrown the government 2013-2014 that is what the aslove battalion are. nazis that is what Putin was referring to. Russia has a long standing hatred of the Nazis. The killed millions of russians
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Interestingly I just had a conversation with a co-worker who is unconvinced that Russia is actually bombing or invading Ukraine. His take is that you can't believe anything you read in the media, it could all be fake. And that our western liberal dogma doesn't allow for facts that don't agree with ours. His philosophical question was why can't you believe the Russian media?This is terrifying...
Ukraine war: 'My city's being shelled, but mum won’t believe me'
These Ukrainians say their Russian relatives only trust the narratives they see on TV at home.
But, ask yourself, where would you, your friends, and family, fall in this situation? Would you be willing to admit that everything you thought you knew was wrong? What kind of evidence does it take to turn that opinion? I know I have numerous family that would be just like the russians described in that article.
That you, Vlad?
Based on some brief searches, it seems the 2014 revolution was largely based on the former president taking steps backward from joining the EU and tried to strengthen ties with Russia. I can see why the US would support such a revolution, even if a handful of them had ties to what appear to be pro-nazi groups.
I also teach middle school band, so my expertise in geopolitical matters is well....non-existent.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
... the Russian media says they invaded though?
Russia says they are liberating the country from neo-nazis, but definitely states they have invaded and are bombing the country.
Russo-Ukrainian problems have been in the making for decades. But, you’re correct, the pro-western democracy Maidan Protests of 2013 set the wheels in motion for Russian incursion into Crimea and the Donbas region. And ultimately to Russia’s current invasion of Ukraine.
You’re also correct in that it was not a neo-nazi driven movement. Unless your only media source is RT or RT adjacent.
Background from a non-biased source for BuckB:
The Maidan protest movement
Bigjay73
Well-known member
The main newspaper in the Soviet Union was called "Pravda" which translates to "Truth". My Russian studies teacher always said it was only good for wrapping fish in.
For anyone really interested in the post Maidan Russian incursion into Ukraine, Simon Ostrovsky did a stellar 111 part series of on the ground reporting from Ukraine for Vice (and even got kidnapped in the process).
Russian Roulette
Edit: Apologies to BigFin for posting so many links in this thread as I think it’s officially a forum no-no, but I think they’re appropriate background.
Russian Roulette
Edit: Apologies to BigFin for posting so many links in this thread as I think it’s officially a forum no-no, but I think they’re appropriate background.
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