Ukraine / Russia

[Sytes]

The totality of the setting is a potential powder keg.

Ukraine = Russia / China v US
Israel = Russia / China v US

US classed out due to Israel by the UN
Russia classed out due to Ukraine by the UN

Russia and China build stronger ties

As China strengthens ties with Russia, the Israel-Hamas war deepens their divide with the U.S.

While President Joe Biden has emphasized U.S. support for Israel, Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin have taken a different approach.

www.nbcnews.com

China has, an "I told ya so" action halted vital minerals that US depends upon for our "green" initiatives and Semiconductors, etc.

Our own nationalistic pride has met US apologists / cancel culture crowd... Illegal to be proud of America while "undocumented immigrants" are no longer considered, "Illegal"... What a twisted country.

As the signature panel shares... Theodore Roosevelt nailed it. This is considered by our US apologists as evil... Fk 'em.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Mean while. Things are trucking along in Ukraine. Idk how Ukraine can keep throwing bodies at this. Anyone have a count of the death toll between Russia and Ukraine?

Russia quietly renews offensive across entire Ukraine front: Kyiv

Russian forces have faced high losses in the push for Avdiivka as they continue missile strikes on targets in other parts of Ukraine.

www.newsweek.com

Best data I have seen for Russia is 150,000-190,000 killed or permanently disabled. Another 100,000 sufficiently injurred to be removed from battle areas, but theoretically could be able to return at some future point. Ukraine losses track about 60% of those numbers.

History shows that the question is not how many Ukrainians will be willing to die - it is their homeland - every death a hero. Rather, how much longer will Russians tolerate an unnecessary foreign entanglement with these types of loses where every death is a pointless waste.

It is clear Russia will never peacefully govern over the Ukraine. But how long and at what price will they leave, no one knows.

The Russian invasion of Afghanistan cost them about 15,000 dead (compared to ~75,000 dead in Ukraine) and it played a real role in ending the Soviet Union. Ironic, given Putin’s dismay with that event.

I wonder how long we would have stayed in any of our messes (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq) with casualty rates this high - not long I would suspect.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Our own nationalistic pride has met US apologists / cancel culture crowd... Illegal to be proud of America while "undocumented immigrants" are no longer considered, "Illegal"... What a twisted country.

Immigration has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[KB_]

Best data I have seen for Russia is 150,000-190,000 killed or permanently disabled. Another 100,000 sufficiently injurred to be removed from battle areas, but theoretically could be able to return at some future point. Ukraine losses track about 60% of those numbers.

History shows that the question is not how many Ukrainians will be willing to die - it is their homeland - every death a hero. Rather, how much longer will Russians tolerate an unnecessary foreign entanglement with these types of loses where every death is a pointless waste.

It is clear Russia will never peacefully govern over the Ukraine. But how long and at what price will they leave, no one knows.

The Russian invasion of Afghanistan cost them about 15,000 dead (compared to ~75,000 dead in Ukraine) and it played a real role in ending the Soviet Union. Ironic, given Putin’s dismay with that event.

I wonder how long we would have stayed in any of our messes (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq) with casualty rates this high - not long I would suspect.

I would suspect you will see similar rates in KIA and suicides once these wars are over as well. Generations of men and women. Gone.

 

[VikingsGuy]

View attachment 298702

I would suspect you will see similar rates in KIA and suicides once these wars are over as well. Generations of men and women. Gone.

I agree and feel the loss deeply. I do not doubt the pain or suffering American families have (and still do) endured. Just saying if those numbers were 80,000 dead and 150,000 permanently disabled in 12 months we would have ended it much sooner. We suffered from a slow trickle that was below the radar for the average person.

 

[KB_]

I agree and feel the loss deeply. I do not doubt the pain or suffering American families have (and still do) endured. Just saying if those numbers were 80,000 dead and 150,000 permanently disabled in 12 months we would have ended it much sooner. We suffered from a slow trickle that was below the radar for the average person.

No I totally agree with what your saying. I would like to think we would have stopped the bleeding a lot faster if our KIA's were in that range, but I cant say for sure. I was just trying to convey that while they are looking at 80k KIA id wager more the double end up as a suicide at some point after the conflict, and they are and should be considered as a war causality. I would also wager it could easily be even worse with the HAMAs/Israel conflict happening as well due to the civilian causality situation happening in Gaza and Israel. I think the actual numbers as so much higher then what has ever been documented sadly.

 

[VikingsGuy]

No I totally agree with what your saying. I would like to think we would have stopped the bleeding a lot faster if our KIA's were in that range, but I cant say for sure. I was just trying to convey that while they are looking at 80k KIA id wager more the double end up as a suicide at some point after the conflict, and they are and should be considered as a war causality. I would also wager it could easily be even worse with the HAMAs/Israel conflict happening as well due to the civilian causality situation happening in Gaza and Israel. I think the actual numbers as so much higher then what has ever been documented sadly.

The total societal cost of war is staggering - so staggering few are willing to discuss it.

One of the most striking examples of human hubris of war was when Paraguay lost 90% of its adult male population in the failed “Triple Alliance War” in the late 19th century.

 

[Sytes]

Immigration has nothing to do with this thread.

Oh spare me your mightier than though approach... Refugees from Ukraine, Aka: U4U, etc.

Canadian border influx of "undocumented immigrants" from foreign countries using Canada for their entry point as Mexico holds heavier CBP presence... criminally entering the U.S., this embraces our anti Nationalistic approach expressed.

How about this VG, I'll specifically quote a post or few from you in this thread where your content was shared as a parallel OR (and) related...

My point is our nationalism pride is screwed to the point more Chinese owned / shareholder strength companies in the U.S. would tell our Nationalistic pride to pound sand for purpose of sought U.S. aid from our U.S. citizens / U.S. govt.

This adversely impacts our ability to stand tall for this Ukraine deal while ignoring the elephant of UN objection for our support of Israeli ever involved encroachment.

US hypocrisy matching.

Your quotes alone in this thread and others would openly present your hypocrisy.

 

[noharleyyet]

Immigration has nothing to do with this thread.

You have to realize how swiftly it could become one right?

 

[F250]

Too late. They are already here. Ask the front line uniformed folks that do the real work.

 

[SAJ-99]

They are already here.

Who exactly is the "they"? What you described seem like Canadian ninjas? I need to know whom to be afraid of. It's hockey season, so Canucks are already on my list.

 

[F250]

I spoke to uniformed officers. I think i already said that. Just shove your head a little deeper in the sand. Everything is OK

 

[Sytes]

Who exactly is the "they"? What you described seem like Canadian ninjas? I need to know whom to be afraid of. It's hockey season, so Canucks are already on my list.

1.) Palestinian sabatuers intent to encite aggressive protests who live in Canada and from abroad intent to route into the U.S. via Canada.
2.) Ukranians who took advantage of the benefits Canada offered and now entering the U.S. to take advantafe of our U4U program... The humor is to believe they plan to leave once their "Advance Parole U4U" status expires two years from their parole date. "Undocumented Immigrants" not Parole violation criminal aliens... oops, not supposed to use that word anymore, I apologize.

 

[SAJ-99]

1.) Palestinian sabatuers intent to encite aggressive protests who live in Canada and from abroad intent to route into the U.S. via Canada.
2.) Ukranians who took advantage of the benefits Canada offered and now entering the U.S. to take advantafe of our U4U program... The humor is to believe they plan to leave once their "Advance Parole U4U" status expires two years from their parole date. "Undocumented Immigrants" not Parole violation criminal aliens... oops, not supposed to use that word anymore, I apologize.

That is a very detailed list. Again, the risks of "open" borders have ALWAYS existed. To have a heightened awareness of them now is perfectly reasonable. But I don't think there is any amount of money that could fix it - hiring more boarder patrol, infra and heat scanning drones, what? Rebuild the Berlin wall on the 49th Parallel seems unreasonable. Today it seems every few months we have a branch of government complaining about $$$ and doing things to keep officers from getting paid because. This doesn't help the situation. It is silly season.

And yes, they are not illegal immigrants if they walk up to the border patrol and ask for asylum. As spelled out in the law, they get detained and processed. That is how the process works. The numbers are overwhelming for the budget and staffing assigned to ICE. Like everyone else, I don't like it. But what are the options? Hint, it will probably involve $$$.

Humor is how you deal with a reality you can't change. Expiring visas is how a TON of Canadians have stayed in the US illegally for decades. This just seems to be the latest thing some media is pushing to try to scare people. Politicians (looking at you Danies- stop sending me emails FFS) jump on the bandwagon, but what they don't offer is solutions.

 

[F250]

Oh wise one… you will be giving away a lot of American real estate if you use the 48th Parallel…

 

[QuazyQuinton]

View attachment 298702

I would suspect you will see similar rates in KIA and suicides once these wars are over as well. Generations of men and women. Gone.

Really? I'm curious why you think that would happen. Is there a historical precedent or trend pointing to such numbers? What was the ratio of KIA to suicides for American service members after WWII?

QQ

 

[VikingsGuy]

Oh spare me your mightier than though approach... Refugees from Ukraine, Aka: U4U, etc.

Canadian border influx of "undocumented immigrants" from foreign countries using Canada for their entry point as Mexico holds heavier CBP presence... criminally entering the U.S., this embraces our anti Nationalistic approach expressed.

How about this VG, I'll specifically quote a post or few from you in this thread where your content was shared as a parallel OR (and) related...

My point is our nationalism pride is screwed to the point more Chinese owned / shareholder strength companies in the U.S. would tell our Nationalistic pride to pound sand for purpose of sought U.S. aid from our U.S. citizens / U.S. govt.

This adversely impacts our ability to stand tall for this Ukraine deal while ignoring the elephant of UN objection for our support of Israeli ever involved encroachment.

US hypocrisy matching.

Your quotes alone in this thread and others would openly present your hypocrisy.

Covered lots of ground there - to the extent I could decipher parts, my thoughts:

Patriotism is good - however, nationalism has proven dangerous for many countries. I am patriotic, I distrust “nationalism”.

Immigration is good - we are all immigrants or progeny of immigrants. Our ability to supplement our feeble birth rates with new folks keeps our economy viable and we can avoid the demographic collapse facing Europe, Japan, and China. For every “lazy immigrant” I can no doubt find 10 lazy citizens, for every “crimininal immigrant” I can find 5 criminal citizens. Work hard and take care of your kids is all I ask from my neighbors. Every immigrant I have known (illegal, undocumented, documented or otherwise) has met this simple standard - my mileage has been far more mixed with my fellow citizens.

China is an insignificant owner of US property - they pale in comparison to the Canadians, Brits, Dutch and I am not worried about them either. They own far less than the Japanese did last time we had this “scare” in the 1980s.

None of the above has anything to do with what we can or can‘t do via the UN. (ps, I am not a fan of the UN)

I support the Ukraine and Israel, but I do think we have to ask ourselves in aggregate how far we take this (and Taiwan and S.Korea). This could get costly quickly so we should have some sense of where we stand (but off-topic we can’t even get a speaker of the house, so this seems too much to ask).

 

[SAJ-99]

Oh wise one… you will be giving away a lot of American real estate if you use the 48th Parallel…

Oops. fixed it.
If I were truly wise I would have answers. I don't.

 

[VikingsGuy]

You have to realize how swiftly it could become one right?

Ukrainian immigrants? Not sure I see that being material for US.

 

[noharleyyet]

Ukrainian immigrants? Not sure I see that being material for US.

Please don't feign confusion, you know which conflict being discussed in the last few pages I'm alluding to.