Ukraine / Russia

[WVmike]

Insane people dont weigh risk the same as sane people. I'm not saying Putin, Biden, or Zeleniski are insane. But they might be

I agree with this. The leaders of Russia, North Korea, China, Iran, etc don't use sound judgement because their views are different than not only yours and mine (mainly due to the country we live in and those countries despise us) but also with other countries around them especially if at some point in history those other countries were apart of their empire/republic etc. Putin believes he is going to recreate the Soviet Union because he was affected by that and has been around that his entire life coming up in the military/political parties I'm sure. The problem is like KB mentioned in his previous post that we as human beings always have to wage war or prepare to wage war and unfortunately the ones that deem we go to war or the picture we paint for other countries are the ones that should put on the plate carrier and go off to some foreign place and maybe we wouldn't have half the problem we have now especially here in the US. It would be interesting to see if there was a war here in the US, how many senators and elected officials would flee to another country while it would be a free for all here. It's a scary thing when my 9 year old son asks if he will have to fight in a war one day and that is a question I have yet to be able to answer for him nor will I ever be able to.

 

[BrentD]

I think the Russians would much rather sell energy to Western Europe vs an all-out war.

Current events are not supporting that hypothesis at all.

 

[antlerradar]

I think the Russians would much rather sell energy to Western Europe vs an all-out war.

Doesn't matter what the Russians want, only Putin and Putin wants the old Soviet Union back.

 

[KB_]

It's a scary thing when my 9 year old son asks if he will have to fight in a war one day and that is a question I have yet to be able to answer for him nor will I ever be able to.

They scariest part is when you have to answer him. When he turns 18, He will have to sign up for the draft. The answer then becomes... you might have too.

 

[Handlebar]

Current events are not supporting that hypothesis at all.

He is not in an al-out war, that would require the USA to put boots on the ground because the Europeans for all their hawkish talk cannot even fund their militaries.
The West is using the Ukes as cannon fodder and all we have really accomplished is pushing China and Russia closer together.
Perhaps you are right. I am sure that Putin in his desire to recreate the old Soviet Union and rule Poland, Hungry, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, (perhaps he has accepted the idea that he won't get East Germany back) is willing to start a war with the West. which really means the USA. I am sure that he overlooked the fact that his main economic lifeline the Nord Stream pipeline would get blown up. I think too many of y'all are guilty of viewing Russia like we did in the 60-90's. Putin may well want Russia to have the status that in his mind the former Soviet Union had, but they could well achieve that status with their massive energy reserves. I think we are guilty of fighting the last Cold War.

 

[WVmike]

They scariest part is when you have to answer him. When he turns 18, He will have to sign up for the draft. The answer then becomes... you might have too.

That conversation is definitely not one that I was prepared for. You are right, he may have to one day. If he chooses to do so one day, that is his choice and it's a choice that is hard to describe that others don't understand.

 

[QuazyQuinton]

I think

I travelled to Kyrgyzstan last summer for a couple weeks. I've also recently read a couple of books by people who have done humanitarian work in Afghanistan and Somalia. This has not made me an expert, but it has opened my eyes to how much people in other parts of the world think differently than we do. Crystal clear logic to us is foolishness to them. "American thinking" means very little to many of these people. We have discovered this historically, but I'm not sure we've learned what to do about it.

QQ

 

[KB_]

I often wonder if people dont really understand that particular fact. If you are an able bodied adult male, you are signed up for the draft. There are no if/ands/or but about it. That is just fact. If voters would take into account that their decisions could potentially put their sons in a war in a foreign country. Maybe their decisions would change, or maybe they wouldn't. I know i never thought about that until I became active duty and my friends I went to boot-camp with were coming home (if at all) in body bags. People who get voted in to make these decisions maybe are not qualified to do that in the first place.

Then there are guys like Putin. Qualified or not, likely does not care about Russian sons being drafted to fight in a war they maybe dont want to be apart of.

 

[Handlebar]

I travelled to Kyrgyzstan last summer for a couple weeks. I've also recently read a couple of books by people who have done humanitarian work in Afghanistan and Somalia. This has not made me an expert, but it has opened my eyes to how much people in other parts of the world think differently than we do. Crystal clear logic to us is foolishness to them. "American thinking" means very little to many of these people. We have discovered this historically, but I'm not sure we've learned what to do about it.

Q

I would agree with you that Americans and other parts of the world see things differently. and while a Somali and an American will view things through a different lens I am not sure that I would subscribe that to the same level with regard to Russia.

 

[WVmike]

I often wonder if people dont really understand that particular fact. If you are an able bodied adult male, you are signed up for the draft. There are no if/ands/or but about it. That is just fact. If voters would take into account that their decisions could potentially put their sons in a war in a foreign country. Maybe their decisions would change, or maybe they wouldn't. I know i never thought about that until I became active duty and my friends I went to boot-camp with were coming home (if at all) in body bags. People who get voted in to make these decisions maybe are not qualified to do that in the first place.

Then there are guys like Putin. Qualified or not, likely does not care about Russian sons being drafted to fight in a war they maybe dont want to be apart of.

People are too dumb and lazy now adays to realize this I'm sure. Maybe if they found that out things would change, but then again it might not. I had quite a few reality checks too, one of the first standing on the yellow footprints myself.

 

[KB_]

People are too dumb and lazy now adays to realize this I'm sure. Maybe if they found that out things would change, but then again it might not. I had quite a few reality checks too, one of the first standing on the yellow footprints myself.

lol oh the yellow footprints. Those were the days. How was black friday?

 

[WVmike]

lol oh the yellow footprints. Those were the days. How was black friday?

That may have been one of the craziest days up to that point in my life with tornado day being a close second while in boot camp.

 

[VikingsGuy]

This article draws parallels between the 1930s Spanish Civil War and current Ukraine war. The point made that Western nations feared the expansion of war more than Franco is definitely palpable today. What with most of NATO providing weaponry to Ukraine while admonishing Russia not to cross the line. Taiwan looks awful tasty to China. Who is there to say “no”? Ukraine needs to be given everything short of nuclear to steamroll straight back to the Russian border.

Ukraine’s Uncertain Future Looks a Lot Like Spain’s Bloody Past

The Spanish Civil War was a proxy struggle for world powers, which shortly went on to wage a global conflict.

www.bloomberg.com

A recent "The Rest is History" podcast made parallels to the isolationists of Britain in discussing Hitler into Czechoslavokia, "not a real country", "too corrupt", "too backwards", "the west has boxed Germany in and left them no choice", "we have no interest in lesser Eastern European states", etc. The arguments for and against war don't change, just the uniforms of the opponents do. In the end, tyrants always extract a toll on other nations. I believe history teaches us it is best to punch them sooner than later. If we blink and give Putin and Xi this win, will regret it - the price and death toll only goes up from here.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Do you honestly believe that the Russians are going to risk an all-out war with the entire West? I don't. I also do not believe that this is cheap medicine.

And a weakened Germany would never provoke the all-powerful French and their British and American Allies by moving on Poland . . . . or maybe they might . . . .

 

[VikingsGuy]

I think the Russians would much rather sell energy to Western Europe vs an all-out war.

That day has passed. Now they are left selling it at a discount to India and China. Even if there was peace tomorrow the EU greens and military folks won't go back to full Russian spigots (be it for different reasons).

 

[Handlebar]

And a weakened Germany would never provoke the all-powerful French and their British and American Allies by moving on Poland . . . . or maybe they might . . . .

You are fighting the last war, another common mistake that history shows repeats itself over and over.

 

[VikingsGuy]

You are fighting the last war, another common mistake that history shows repeats itself over and over.

Nope, fighting the last war would be loading up on aircraft carriers and long-range manned bombers - the Ukraine is not doing either, they are using (with US teaching and tools) a very mobile and tech-enabled warfare. Standing up to tyrants is a common theme of history.

 

[Handlebar]

Nope, fighting the last war would be loading up on aircraft carriers and long-range manned bombers - the Ukraine is not doing either, they are using (with US teaching and tools) a very mobile and tech-enabled warfare. Standing up to tyrants is a common theme of history.

Nope fighting the last war is thinking that after Putin gets done with Ukraine and we don't stop him then he is going after the rest of the former Communist Bloc/Europe. Imagining that Putin wants to retore the gory of the former Soviet Union by reacquiring all of its former Warsaw Pact territory.

 

[QuazyQuinton]

You are fighting the last war, another common mistake that history shows repeats itself over and over.

I perceive that Putin is fighting the last war, and the mistake would be to assume otherwise.

QQ

 

[Handlebar]

I perceive that Putin is fighting the last war, and the mistake would be to assume otherwise.

QQ

What last war is he fighting exactly?